Their website is up and running. You can check it out here.

Ted went to St. James between first and 8th grade. It was a co-ed Catholic school in Glen Ellen, the city with the most churches per square mile in the U.S. He’s 22 and still fits in his 8th grade gym uniform (which he wore for the interview).

W.T. Really, the most churches per square mile in the United States?

Ted: Yeah, that’s our claim to fame. In the United States. It’s digusting. It’s conservative.

W.T. What I’d like to start with is sex education. Did you school have any?

Ted: Yes. 5th grade. It was only like a 5 class thing on Tuesdays … it was short. I had known everything though because I have an older sister and she told me everything when she went through it.

W.T. Alright, so what’d they teach you?

Ted: They went through the reasons for sex. Procreation. So, Catholic reasons for sex. And most of it was about changes as you grow. Like deodorant, using that. The basics of what puberty is gonna do, getting high, changes in musculature.

W.T. What’d they say about relationships?

Ted: They didn’t talk about relationships, homosexuality, masturbation. They didn’t talk about safe sex. No contraception, obviously, ‘cause Catholics are pretty well known for not believing in it. Yeah, they tend to reproduce.

W.T. And so you were in school through the sacrament of confirmation.

Ted: Yeah, I mean, I still go to church occasionally. It built for me a pretty firm belief in a higher power, and it’s easy to revert back to that when I am frustrated or want to talk or whatever. I do believe in the paternal father figure, as an overriding deity. I still identify as Catholic. Last year I was my little sister’s confirmation sponsor.

W.T. How’d you like public school in comparison to public school? You went to public school for high school, right?

Ted: Well, I hated CCD kids so much. Public school jackasses. But really I like public school better than private school. I couldn’t stand it. Usually they have really small classes. It was the same 33 people for 8 years of my life. I couldn’t wait to get to high school, which was 2,200 people.

W.T. How do you feel overall about your experience at Catholic school?

Ted: It was sheltered, beyond belief. It was horrible. We were so ridiculously unknowledgeable about the world. We weren’t allowed to date in 7th grade. We got yelled at by the principal for that. She came into our classroom and she’s like, “We heard that you guys went on a double date. That’s done!” We got yelled at for some kid bringing a condom to school. That was one of my friends. It altered how I decided to be in high school. It made me rebel a lot more. I didn’t masturbate until I got to high school and I’m pretty sure I’m hypersexual now. Ask either of the guys I’ve dated.

W.T. And you think that going to Catholic school and being repressed in that area is the reason for that?

Ted: Yeah, that’s my opinion. ‘Cause my sister’s kinda similar and I bet my younger sisters will be the same way.

W.T. So you did second guess your sexuality at points? Thinking of it as a phase?

Ted: Yeah, I would never say that I thought I was straight. I always knew I liked guys, but I thought there’s ways to work around that. Like being one of those husbands who never touches his wife! I like girls a lot, physically, and I’ve never had a problem fooling around with girls.

W.T. Did you ever have any relationships with women?

Ted: Yeah, 2 in high school. One was one month, the other was four. The second one ended when I first fooled around with a guy. Not right away though. It was horrible! I was dating this girl Dianne for 3 months, and then I fooled around with the first guy. I felt horrible so I told her. I went to her work and I had asked her to prom, on one of those billboard signs, ya know? And then I was supposed to pick her up, and I fell asleep and she came and I was like, “Yeah, we have to talk.” And at first she was crying happy, like, “I can’t believe you asked me to the –“ and I was like, “Yeah … I cheated on you.” And you see the tears start falling, and then I was like, “Yeah … with a guy.” And then! Eugh, we sat there for two hours. And we continued dating for another month and we went to prom, too. Worst prom of my life. She was gonna come to U of I because she thought we were going to get back together. I was like, “No, you don’t understand.”

W.T. What would you consider immoral sex?

Ted: See, I don’t know. I don’t believe there’s any categorical imperatives for sexuality. If it works for you … like if you can have a healthy relationship with more than one person then by all means. For me, I wouldn’t be able to do it. And sex with a younger person, if it’s a relationship you can do … that’s great on both parts. I probably couldn’t have sexual relations with like a 13 year old. But then again, I’m not from Kentucky.

W.T. My roommate actually just went to Kentucky. He’s hunting fossils. Next big topic. Gay marriage. How do you feel about it?

Ted: Um, I don’t see why it’s a topic. I think it should be abolished from a state standpoint. It should just be a religious thing. That’s why I think the solution is. But a lot of people won’t go for it, especially heterosexuals.

W.T. So instead of allowing special rights, special rights being tax breaks, etc., you think that should be abolished from all marriages and unions? Or do you want a separation from a marriage in the Church and a union under the State?

Ted: Yeah, that’s what I think would be the best option. Separation from what a religious marriage is and what a union is, in the state sense. But since that’s probably not gonna happen I’m all for gay marriage. I don’t think I’d ever picket for it or anything.

W.T. Do you ever see yourself getting married or having a union?

Ted: Yeah.

W.T. Which would you rather have, as a Catholic?

Ted: I don’t really care. As long as it’s something that’s legal and agreed upon by me and whoever I’m with. I want the same rights.

W.T. And how do you feel about the Bible?

Ted: I want to quote Foxxy Love on this, “It’s not a strict set of rules, but a guide to help you define your personal relationship with the lord.” It’s written … it’s not perfect. I got in a fight the other day with a girl from Cru about this, actually. Nothing perfect can come from something imperfect, and since it’s written by man…. It may be divinely inspired but it’s so open to misinterpretation. And it was also written with rules that made sense at the time but obviously we’ve progressed since then. Like … we wear buttons now. Clothes of more than one fabric.

W.T. Yeah, who knew! So comfy.

Ted: No joke! To quote some parts of the Bible and then ignore others is just ridiculous. But I’m also not a fan of organized religion. I believe in a lot of the doctrine and think it’s a good guideline to live life by, but I’m not a fan of the pope, I’m not a fan of mass. It’s very cultish. It’s nice. It’s stable. I was actually a youth leader in high school. I led my youth group and I went to Cru for a semester here.

W.T. What was that like?

Ted: It was cool. It’s kind of like mass and you sit around, sing songs and pray. But the people are very hypocritical, like in so many organized religions. There are a few genuinely good people. I liked youth group because it was more about being with your friends and you go for guidelines. And you play volleyball. They intertwined religious doctrine but it wouldn’t be hardcore. Most of the churches I have been with have been pretty liberal.

W.T. Your relationship with your family now, what’s it like?

Ted: They don’t care. I came out to my mom first. And she was upset for like 6 months, but she got over it. And my older sister, she was the one I was most scared to come out to. She would be like, “If you ever turned out gay I’m gonna cut off your balls and shove em down your throat.” It was horrible growing up! And I was terrified to come out and she was like, “Why didn’t you tell me?” She’s hilarious.

W.T. How did the priest scandal affect your view on homosexuality?

Ted: It’s a sad scenario, but I can see why it happened. People are repressed, they don’t want to get married, and so they figure that’ll help, but it doesn’t.

W.T. Do you think Catholic priests should be able to have relationships?

Ted: It’s a conflicting subject. They’re supposed to be studying God and it’s kind of hard to do that when you’ve got a family. To the extent that you go to a priest for religious guidance, I think it’d be really hard. But there’s got to be an outlet somewhere. As humans, we’re not meant to be asexual.

W.T. How has Catholic school impacted your view on relationships?

Ted: I’ve only been in two relationships. They were both long-term, for me at least. One was a year and a half, the other was 2 years. I don’t casually date. I think it’s a bit ridiculous. In both instances, I was dating somebody I thought I could see spending the rest of my life with. Go hard or go home is my philosophy. Hookups are fine, but if I can help it I don’t want to date someone for just 3 months. I believe in either long-term relationships or one-night stands. And I feel that a lot of that has a lot to do with the Catholic mindset. You’re supposed to find someone that you can be with forever.

W.T. Any other relationship tidbits?

Ted: Every time I’ve dated, that person’s become my best friend. My best buddy. And I fell like that’s the most important part of a relationship; the sex does fade from what it originally was. Maybe it doesn’t die completely, but you need somebody that you can get along with. What I liked about my last relationship was that we contrasted each other really well. We thought differently but had similar viewpoints. Both moderately conservative. I’m a bit more liberal. He’s in the fine and applied arts, and I’m in research. I like that.

W.T. Well we’re almost done here, but is there anything else you’d like to touch on before I go to my last question?

Ted: I think Catholic school jipped me. I mean, you started dating when you were like 13, right?

W.T. 14. It was the end of 8th grade.

Ted: Yeah, well I got jipped from that experience. Everything was so repressed. I didn’t even date girls in middle school. Like, the public middle school by us was doing those lipstick parties, ya know? With the different lipstick colors and they would be servicing guys and hopefully you’d have a rainbow on your dick by the time the party was over. People were doing that and at our school we’d be watching movies and baking cookies. But yeah, I guess the public schools by us were a bit out of control.

W.T. Alright, last question. If some gay kid from a Catholic school were plopped down next to you right now, what advice would you have for him?

Ted: Well, to Catholic students in general, think for yourself. Make sure everything makes sense to you instead of just believing doctrine. Yes they’re good guidelines and stuff but ultimately you have to make your own decisions. One of the ways I justify homosexuality in my life, was that God can’t possibly hate people for loving others. It can’t be that wrong if, well, for me, if you’re in a loving healthy monogamous relationship that isn’t abusive. Accept yourself and be truthful.

AJ is a junior at UIUC. AJ went to Brother Rice High School, a same-sex Catholic school on the south side of Chicago.

W.T. What was sex ed like at Brother Rice?

AJ: Sex education? Well we didn’t get sex ed. Just what you learned in between the lockers I guess.

W.T. Did they talk about sexuality in any other classes?

AJ: Religious classes yeah. My high school is very accepting of everybody though. There were people that were out in my high school.

W.T. Were there any groups for that sort of thing? Like a GSA?

AJ: No, haha, it’s still the south side.

W.T. Did anyone seem to have a problem with it?

AJ: Well, I wasn’t out in high school. But no, no one had a problem with the other guys who were. I mean people threw around the word “gay” a lot but they didn’t mean it in a derogatory sense. Or direct at any of the gay people. It’s just the way south siders were brought up.

W.T. Tell me more about sexuality being discussed in your religion classes.

AJ: Oh god, well it depends on who your teacher was. Luckily my teacher was really cool. He was a brother actually. We had to do a group project once and we did it on gay marriage. We got an A+ on it. He loved it. Yeah, he never really went into detail on what he thought about gay people but you could tell he was cool with everybody.

W.T. What some people have been telling me is that it’s okay to be gay, but it’s not okay to actually take part in homosexual acts. Were you raised with a specific view on that?

AJ: I guess you could say that. People would know but they don’t want to see it. The idea of “keep it away from me.” But I feel if I can watch you make out in a bar with some chick, why can’t I do the same thing with a guy? I think people are afraid of stereotypes. My friend is okay with having a gay friend, but he’s not okay with seeing it. I don’t know why. I think they’re just afraid of being associated with promiscuity. They think all gay guys are promiscuous. Or they’re afraid of being thought of as gay themselves. They secretly do have some judgments.

W.T. And you’re cool with your friends feeling like that?

AJ: Well, I don’t know. At the beginning when I came out I was cool with it because I didn’t want people to think of me as this snobby kid saying “you can’t do this anymore or that anymore.” Now it pisses me off a little bit. I’m not gonna say anything about it but inside I’m thinking, “Shut the fuck up.”

W.T. You mentioned gay marriage earlier. How do you feel about that?

AJ: Thumbs up. Two thumbs up. Can’t wait. I want it now. I don’t want to get married now but I want the rights now.

W.T. Ok, that’s the thing, do you want the rights or do you actually want to be married in a church?

AJ: I think it’s a matter of being able to get married in the church. I hear you can get married in some Lutheran churches. In my future I don’t see myself getting married in a church. I would love to; I think church weddings are awesome. I don’t want to get married in a banquet hall!

W.T. A lot of people have a problem with gay marriage because a lot of gays want not only the rights that come with marriage, but the word marriage. Do you think we should have a separation there?

AJ: People are still easing up to the fact that gay marriage is happening now. I think having the right by itself is what we need now. We don’t need the word marriage in there now. It’s whatever you make it really. Calling it marriage now is pushing it a little too far. People are already pissed at us.

W.T. You’re still religious?

AJ: No.

W.T. No? But you want to get married in a church.

AJ: Well no, it depends where the church is at by that time. I would like to be religious, but in the Catholic Church … it’s just not … it’s two opposing forces.

W.T. Is that the one main issue you have with Catholicism?

AJ: There’s issues. I have so many problems with the Catholic Church. With the priests, with views on abortion. I think they’re just stuck in the medieval times. They’re afraid of change. It’s like in Happy Feet.

W.T. I haven’t seen it.

AJ: Oh god, you should. The main penguin who dances … they hate him because he can’t sing but he can dance. The elder penguins are afraid that dancing will bring about change in the way the penguins … it’ll mess up the balance. They run out of fish and they blame it on him. But in the end they all start dancing. Haha, it’s very politically driven. You should see it.

W.T. It kind of sounds like Footloose or something. But you mentioned priests. What’s wrong with priests?

AJ: Oh god, what isn’t wrong with priests? No, I shouldn’t say that, that’s horrible. There’s a lot of good priests out there. A lot of accepting priests. But you know on the south side you get your screwups. There was a priest at my school who didn’t pay his hooker or something downtown, and the pimp came and beat him up in our school parking lot. And then you get the ones who are a little bit too promiscuous with their students.

W.T. How did that whole priest scandal affect your views on the Catholic Church and on homosexuality? Because here you have someone preaching to you that the gay lifestyle is wrong, and then they’re partaking in it themselves to a point that involves pederasty…

AJ: Well, you have to blame it on the individual person who does it. I think part of the problem is when they outlawed marriage for priests. I mean can you imagine celibacy?

W.T. No. No I could not. That would be horrible.

AJ: That’s why I will not be a priest.

W.T. Do you know of any churches that are accepting?

AJ: No. I’m from the south side. I heard there may be some on the north side somewhere.

W.T. Do you have any interest in pursuing something like that?

AJ: I don’t consider myself not religious, I definitely believe in something. I don’t know what that is and I choose not to put a label on it. But no I can’t see myself going into a catholic church and sitting in one of the pews with everybody else and feeling comfortable. I’d feel like everybody’s staring at me. There’s the gay one!

W.T. You weren’t out in high school. So did you date any girls in high school?

AJ: In high school no. In grade school yeah. Like when you saw a person once a week and you would give them a hug and that’s considered dating.

W.T. Whoa. Hot stuff.

AJ: Yeah. I was a ladies man. But in high school no. I just had no connection with women. They all just wanted to be my friend! The girls I was friends with in high school I was friends with since 3rd grade. We were a very close group of people so we never really had newbies coming in either.

W.T. Did anyone find it strange that you weren’t dating anyone?

AJ: My friends never suspected it. I would make up girlfriends for my parents just so they would stop asking me when I’m going to bring someone to a family party. I would tell them, “Oh she’s just not comfortable with meeting the family.” Oh god … the lies…haha.

W.T. Can you tell me about your parents?

AJ: My mom is cool with it now. She didn’t believe me until she found out I was actually in a relationship with a guy. That was the proof. My dad kind of refuses to believe it. Still. He’s your typical hardworking middle America republican. Not even republican, but he’s always been traditional.

W.T. And siblings?

AJ: I have an older brother and sister. And they know. My sister didn’t believe me when I told her. She told me I didn’t have a gay bone in my body. I totally could have put a pun in there. My brother is kind of funny about it. My sister told my brother, and he called me and was like, “So you make out with boys? Alright….” He’s one of those “not around me” guys, but I have a feeling he’ll warm up to it.

W.T. THE BIBLE. How do you feel about the Bible?

AJ: People try to interpret it so literally. It pisses me off. I took an intro to Catholicism class last year and the teacher was trying to convince us that Adam and Eve were real people.

W.T. That’s so much inbreeding, if that’s true. So much. How do you think the Bible should be read?

AJ: As a story to relate to. Nothing more nothing less. The story is meant to be there to teach you something. It’s not to tell you how to act and behave. It’s there to guide you.

W.T. Sexual deviancy. How would you define that?

AJ: I don’t consider any sex to be “bad.” There are some things I wouldn’t do. Like I would never tie people up or anything. I’m not a kinky person. But I don’t consider that wrong. It’s just not my forte.

W.T. What about polygamy?

AJ: I don’t think that would be wrong, but who would want that? That would bring so much drama and confusion. If you can do it, go for it. But I wouldn’t be able to deal with it. Especially if there’s a woman involved.

W.T. Bestiality?

AJ: If you’re having sex with animals or children, you need to see somebody. You’re a very lonely person.

W.T. You see yourself having a family. How do you plan to go about that?

AJ: A bunch of my friends that are women said they would gladly have one of my children.

W.T. Honestly?

AJ: Yeah. One for sure. But I don’t know if I would want to do that because then she would be involved. Like, I would want the kid and for her to leave the kid alone so I can raise it with whomever I’m with. I mean … I want to keep the bloodline going. Maybe do a surrogate or somethin’. Maybe I’ll just have a bunch of my girlfriends donate their eggs and I could use a surrogate. I’ll just pick randomly so they don’t know.

W.T. You should get a tshirt.

AJ: Haha, yeah, “Accepting egg donations.”

W.T. Only slightly creepy. Is there anyone who doesn’t know?

AJ: All my closest friends know. My family knows. My grandma knows, grandpa doesn’t. He’s just crazy. I’d probably get the shotgun pulled out on me, haha.

W.T. There’s one more question I want to ask. If you were to come across a high school student in a catholic high school today, what advice would you have for him?

AJ: I’d probably tell him to wait ‘til college to come out. School you won’t have a problem with, but at home you’re with your family 24/7. I told my parents over the phone and waited a week before going home. It gave them some time to get used to it. But I would say that you should tell one of your close friends in high school. It’s such a relief.

W.T. What if they want to date someone?

AJ: I waited and it was hell. But if you’re willing to do it and you can hide it from people, go for it. But it’s a struggle. I wouldn’t be able to do it. If your friends all found out, your family would find out. All your friends have siblings, word spreads like wildfire.

W.T. Anything else you want to touch on in relation to sexuality and spirituality?

AJ: If you have the balls …. if you’re strong enough in your faith and you can be gay, that’s amazing and I don’t know how you do it. But I don’t think it’s a real possibility to be a religious gay person in today’s society. I say it’ll be 10 more years. America just isn’t ready for us.

When I first sought out to interview gay guys who went to Catholic schools, my main goal was to find a relationship between spirituality and sexuality. I wanted to see if it was possible for a gay guy to remain Catholic or a Catholic to carry on homosexual relationships. I interviewed five different guys: Luke, AJ, Matt, Ted, and Pat. Their stories, of course, do not represent the entire gay community or the entire Christian community, but they do provide a quick glance into the lives of five different guys who have had very different experiences. Some of them have come to the same ultimate conclusion and some have not. I’ll be using aliases for some of the guys, but I’m not going to let you know which ones. That makes it fun, right?

These are all going to be really long. For the most part I have transcribed the entire interview, just because a) I love this voice recorded I bought and b) I haven’t written in so long that I feel I should really tell the entire story. So I’m sorry if it takes you longer than 5 minutes to read, but hopefully you’ll find it worth it.

Let’s just dive right into it, shall we?

Luke

Luke is a student at U of I – Springfield. Luke grew up in a more liberal household, and so we’ll start with him and slowly work our way through guys raised in more conservative households. Today Luke considers himself agnostic, borderline atheist. This is his interview.

With Tongue: Borderline atheist, huh? What’s keeping you from crossing the border?

Luke: There’s something so definite in declaring yourself atheist. I just don’t think I can ever know what lies ahead, in any sense. I sometimes think that atheists can be more discriminated against than a lot of other groups in the US. My parents are lapsed Catholics and when they had a falling out with the church when I was in about 7th or 8th grade they lost friends, we had to sometimes lie to family members about going to church. Being a closeted atheist can almost be as scary as being a closeted gay depending on your circle of friends.

W.T. Alright, and you went to Catholic school, yes?

Luke: I started in 3rd grade and graduated from a catholic high school. 3rd through 8th was the same grade school, then all the catholic schools are funneled into the only high school in town.

W.T. Can you tell me which school or would you like to keep that anonymous?

Luke: Ehh id rather not. I still haven’t come out to a lot of people in high school and I’d hate for them to find out online. I was the only Luke: in my class. It wouldn’t take a rocket scientist.

W.T. Alright, no problem. Now were these schools co-ed?

Luke: Yes

W.T. What was sex education like?

Luke: Hahaha, well in grade school they didn’t want to deal with it in the school so we all got sent to the health center, but it was mostly like “your changing body and you” type stuff. In high school “health class” was taught by a male coach, and never mentioned contraceptives, only natural family planning. Anyone pro-choice was eligible for expulsion, if that gives you some idea of the climate.

W.T. Wow, okay, so abortion was bad and contraceptives weren’t mentioned. How about homosexuality?

Luke: Never discussed, unless it was brought up, which never happened in health class. Sometimes it was talked about in religion class. Basically, it wasn’t a sin to be gay, but it was a sin to practice it, think about practicing it, if you were gay, they asked you to remain celibate.

W.T. So what did you think about that?

Luke: Well it’s highly idealistic and contradictory.

W.T. You thought this even when you were in high school? What would you say was the opinion of your peers?

Luke: Well, speaking for my peers, it was that gays were punchlines, nothing more. My parents have always been pretty liberal and so I grew up in a place that was accepting but a lot of the families at church were not. If a gay couple had showed up at mass, I’m pretty sure they would’ve been booed out. That never happened though.

W.T. Would you say any of this influenced your agnosticism?

Luke: Of course, and I probably didn’t even realize it at the time since my own “gayness” was so repressed. I stopped considering myself catholic or even religious in my junior year.

W.T. Ah, ok, and when did you start realizing you were gay?

Luke: I didn’t admit it to myself until about a year and a half ago. But I had always been attracted to men ever since puberty. I had a bad experience in grade school. Getting called fag, apparently they knew even before I did. Which probably set the whole coming out thing way in the back of my mind.

W.T. So even the good Catholic school children called each other fags

Luke: Of course, children are children who turn into like-minded adults

W.T. You didn’t come out until college and you’re still not out to friends from high school?

Luke: Two of them, yes. But for the most part I really only keep in contact with a handful of friends from high school and I just haven’t gotten around to telling them yet. They’re probably better off not knowing. I don’t think it would further our friendship, and it might even be too personal. I don’t feel like it’s pertinent information. I’m single now, if I was in a relationship I would feel like it would be necessary. That’s how I came out to my parents and it seemed easier. You know like “Hey I’m seeing someone now, his name is “Blank.”

W.T. How did they react to it?
Luke: Stunned exasperation, but they were quick to calm down and just asked lots of questions

W.T. What was their prime concern, would you say?

Luke: They ended it with the “we just want you to be careful”…so my health basically. My parents have been out of the church for quite some time now. They consider themselves spiritual now and have a group of lapsed Catholics over to their house once a month to talk about philosophy, theology.

W.T. So back to your high school days, did you ever date girls?

Luke: Yes, I had a girlfriend my freshman and sophomore year, she went to a public high school though. It was boring. I ended it out of sheer boredom. Not to mention how are you supposed to have a relationship when neither person can drive?

W.T. Bicycles! Go green! Alright, you were simply bored. What was going on with your homosexual thoughts?

Luke: I wouldn’t acknowledge them, hoping they’d go away. Straight life was more appealing. You know, nuclear family, white picket fence, steady job, basically what society and the media feed you from birth

W.T. And that’s not what you see in your future anymore?

Luke: Please no, I would go insane if I was forced into that. As of now, I have no relational expectations. I’m taking life as it comes.

W.T. When it comes to Catholic school, it doesn’t seem it affected how you live your life in terms of following Christian doctrine. Would you say that’s true, or would you say there are still some morals/values that you follow?

Luke: I mean there’s still the basics that Catholics are supposed to follow, the golden rule, care for those less fortunate. Even though I’m not religious at all, I still do community service and volunteer work. I started doing to fulfill a graduation requirement for high school and I continue because I feel it’s the right thing to do.

W.T. How about Catholic rules when it comes to sex? What do you consider sexual deviance?

Luke: While I was in high school, anything beyond holding hands and kissing. Now, I don’t think the term “sexual deviance” is in my vocabulary unless I’m making fun of religious fundamentalists, and even then I usually choose “abomination.”

W.T. Well if things like homosexual acts or premarital sex aren’t deviant, what about things like polygamy or bestiality?

Luke: Jeez, I would feel like a hypocrite condemning someone for their own sexual preferences. I would say I would be more accepting of polygamy than bestiality or pedophilia just because they are consenting adults. I guess I don’t test my own opinions on bestiality very often.

W.T. How do you feel about gay marriage?

Luke: In full support. I can’t wait until Illinois passes it. Hopefully next session the civil union bill will make it through the legislature. I’m not big on the whole “it has to be identical to straight marriage,” as long as I’m still getting the same rights and privileges as a straight couple I don’t care what it’s called.

W.T. And overall, how do you feel about your experience at Catholic school?

Luke: I look at it like an atheist factory. I’m glad I went through it in the fact that I’m more grounded in my own beliefs now. Kind of the, “I know I don’t want that, so what do I want?” mentality. It helped me think outside of my comfort zone, which was catholic doctrine. So spiritually it helped. In other ways it probably inhibited a lot of personal growth, sexually, socially. Just the fact that differing viewpoints other than Catholic doctrine pigeonholes teens into something they may not want. Had I been in a more open and accepting environment I probably would’ve come out earlier. From what I know, there no out gay students at my high school of over 800 students

W.T. One more question: if you were to give any advice to kids currently in Catholic school who are coming out to themselves and realizing they’re gay/bi/whatever what would it be?

Luke: I’m pretty pessimistic when it comes to coming out in catholic high school. I would say, only tell those you trust. And to just wait, life gets so so so much better after that 4 years is over. I hated my high school. That’s just from my own personal experience, some teens may be able to come to grips in a terrible environment, but they’re going to have to be incredibly strong-willed to do so.

Alright, first I want to apologize for taking so long with these Catholic school boys. I have completed all the interviews and now all I have to do is get them typed up. I don’t know why it’s taking so long but I’m going to blame it all on the fact that I was too busy staring at the rather homoerotic art up at Caffe Paradiso.

Now that that apology and plug is over, I have a request for help. A buddy of mine needs to talk to you young gays out there about the media you like. And by young gays I mean LGBT folk in the range of 17 - 19 years old. He’ll give you pizza. I know this sounds like an episode of To Catch A Predator but I know this guy and he’s an Illini fan, so he must be legit, right?

Here’s his massmail:

Helloooooo boys,

OK so I have a favor to ask of you. I am in the early stages of preparing the data collection for my dissertation and I need to get a small group (9-12) of gay and lesbian students together to discuss the kind of media they like. The catch is that they all have to be “teenagers,” meaning that I have to find 17, 18 or 19-year-old students.

Given that I am as old as dirt, I clearly don’t know many 17, 18 and 19 year-old students. I know you’re all older than this as well, but I was hoping you could help me out by passing along this email to any folks you know that would fit into that demographic. I figured you all might be better connected than I am.

It would only take about 45 minutes one night this coming week or next weekend. Literally we would get together on campus, I’d bring pizza, and we would sit around and talk about TV shows, movies, and magazines. SUPER easy gig.

Pleeeease feel free to pass along any names that I could beg or give my email addy to anyone who could help me out.

Thanks in advance for your help guys!

-Brad

-Bradley J. Bond
Doctoral Candidate

Department of Communication
University of Illinois

If you’re interested, contact him here: bbond2@illinois.edu

I promise I’ll write something soon. Things have been busy. Real busy.

Have fun in classes everyone! If you have time, check out this chick Rachel Zylstra. I saw her perform this summer and loved her stuff.

Also, if you know anyone in Cru, tell them to answer their email! I’ve got some questions.

You’re a freshman. The only friends you have are the annoying people from high school that you can’t seem to shake. You’re gay and you are already realizing that college is not a big fuck fest where homos line the streets and are just begging for you to get up on them and grind grind grind.

Sorry about the repetitive thing right there. I’ve been reading Chuck Palahniuk these past few weeks and most verbs I think of come out in triple.

All that aside, you’re dead wrong. Being at college IS a big fuck fest. Well, sort of. If you’re into that sort of thing, it can definitely be arranged. But for those of you who are new in town and looking to get your feet wet in some sort of metaphorical gay pool, you’ve come to the right place. This, my fresh meat friends, is

The Illini Gay Guide

Welcome! Back when I was a freshman, it was really easy to find out where all the gayz were hiding. All one really had to do was jump on Facebook and search for Males intererested in Men at UIUC. A list of nearly every out gay guy would pop up and all it took was a few messages of, “Hey, I’m new here and looking to meet people. Have any advice on where to meet people?” and within a few hours you’d be at a kegger and watching someone crash through a glass table.

Alas, this specific search function has been taken away from Facebook. I’ve searched high and low, but an explanation for its deletion is nowhere to be found. Maybe I should have Binged instead of Googled. So, my dear friends, I have compiled a list of places where you can go to meet some gays. And yeah, I know it’s not necessary to have only gay friends, but sometimes hanging out with your straight guy friends gets old. You can only watch them make out with sorostitutes so many times before you want a little frat boy of your own, something that isn’t as easy to find (but trust me, it can be done).

Here are some places to check out:

IUB Late Nighter: August 21, 8 PM - 2 AM

The Union (that big building on the north end of the Quad) will be hosting a Late Nighter. A shit ton of you freshmen go to this and have fun playing games and receiving cheap pizza. Some of you might even go bowling. While you’re there, make sure you check out the LGBT Resource Center. To get to the LGBT Resource Center (aka The Office), go to the northwest end of the building. Take the stairs or the elevator to the third floor, take a left and then another left and you have arrived! The LGBT Resource Center is gonna be the one with all the gay people in it. It may be a little intimidating at first, but most of the people in there are actually really friendly, especially the woman in charge: Leslie. She’s awesome. So make sure you stop by and say hey sometime between 8 PM and 2 AM.

THE LGBT BBQ

The LGBT BBQ is on Friday, August 28th between 5 PM and 9 PM at Illini Grove. This is a foresty area on the east side of campus south of Allen Hall and north of FAR and PAR residence halls. There’s free food and last year there was volleyball, so you should definitely come out.

Rainbow Coffeehouse

Every Tuesday night a bunch of people meet to hang out and just chat, play games, drink coffee, or even attempt studying. The environment is incredibly chill and it can be found in the Etc. Coffeehouse at 1203 W. Green St. You’ll be able to find it because they hang a rainbow flag on the outside of the building when they’re there: Tuesday nights 6:30 - 9:00. This starts back up on September 1st, so ya gotta be patient!

C St.

If you’re at least 19, you can get into the bars on campus and one bar in particular that’s downtown: Chester Street. C St. is one of two gay bars in town (the other one of which I haven’t heard much about). C St. is a great place to go if you want to go dancing and not feel stared at while dancing with someone of the same sex. Before it was thought that Friday was lesbian night and Saturday was the most crowded night, but thanks to their new Friday night DJ that’s beginning to change. My prediction for this year is that Friday is the new Saturday, but then again, that might just be because I refuse to go to the same bar two nights in a row, and I really love this DJ.

PRIDE

Pride is an LGBT group here on campus that meets every Monday at 8 PM in the LGBT office. You can find their facebook page here.

Q

Q is a group at Allen Hall that meets and discusses an issue in the LGBT community, or at least that’s what it was when I was going to it. It’s a great place to go if you like to debate about topics that usually revolve around the homosexual community. Finding information for a lot of these groups online isn’t really working out for me, so keep an eye out for posters.

Thursgays

Thursgays is an unofficial group that meets every Thursday at Murphy’s Pub on Green St. every Thursday. Murphy’s is 19+ and has more of a chill atmosphere than some of the other bars on campus. Thursday nights are great ’cause they have specialty pints at 2 bucks a pop.

Ladies Loving Ladies, aka L³

Lesbians. Hot lesbians. That are smart. That’s all I can say. You can find ‘em here.

Colors of PRIDE

Like Pride, but Black. Okay, and Asians and Latinos too. And probably some white kids. This is where discussions revolve around where sexuality meets race.

Caffe Paradiso

Okay, so it’s not a gay cafe, but it’s pretty damn liberal, has great Intelligentsia coffee, good sandwiches, and is very gay friendly. There’s often cool art on the walls and the music, though varied, tends to be stuff that you don’t often get to hear. It’s at Lincoln and Nevada in Urbana and you should check it out. And not just ’cause I work there, but because it’s actually pretty cool. You can follow them on Twitter here.

The ARC

Just like they said in Bruno, there’s no better place to act manly with men than at the gym. I live maybe 3 blocks away from CRCE, but the ARC is really where it’s at. Not only do they have a shit ton more equipment, classes, a rock climbing wall, pools galore, and a sauna, but they also have, get this, cookies. Why they have cookies I’m not sure, but it couldn’t really hurt. Right?

The Arboretum

Located near the south farms, this is probably the gayest place on campus. They have a shit ton of flowers and a Japanese house with this little zen garden. Totally gay. Totes gay, if you will. It’s actually a really great place to just be lazy or play a game of bocce ball or go on a picnic or play frisbee AND it’s not littered with too many people. AKA it’s a good place to bring a date.

The Women’s Resource Center
Um. I’ll write about this later. Promise. I think.

That’s it for now. I’m pretty sure there are quite a few other great places and clubs, but I’m at work right now and I can’t really keep talking to you guys. I really ought to finish because, frankly, I want to close on time tonight and head to Thursgays. See ya there?

YO!

It’s that time of year again. The time when freshman frollick about the campus, running from building to building hoping they can find their classes in time so their professors don’t tear them apart in front of hundreds of other students.

Well, friends, you know what that means:

IT’S TIME FOR A REALLY GAY BARBECUE!!!

You heard it hear first (that is if you didn’t check Facebook already), the LGBT Welcome Back BBQ is coming up. Here’s the skinny:

Host: University of Illinois LGBT Resource Center <— Note the new fan page on Facebook!
Price: Free
Date: Friday, August 28, 2009
Time: 5:00pm - 9:00pm
Location: Illini Grove
Street: http://www.campusrec.illinois.edu/facilities/illini_grove.html
City/Town: Urbana, IL

You can check out the event page here.

See ya there!

Before With Tongue gets all Catholic on your ass, I’d like to briefly discuss having sex in public. A few Tuesdays ago I was leaving Pianoman at the Canopy Club and headed to 8th Grade Dance Party over at Joe’s. A Tuesday night in Champaign-Urbana apparently always requiring singing along to music with other drunken hipsters who just don’t want to give up singing songs like Build Me Up Buttercup or Backstreet’s Back.

To make this journey go by quickly, I took a route that crosses over the crowd. When what to my wondering eyes should appear, but a man fucking his girlfriend at the eternal flame! This couple was either being incredibly clichee (I’ll love you forever!) or incredibly ironic (one night stand much?). I was really hoping for the latter.

I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. Sure, I’ve heard of people messing around in public, but this is much more than someone getting fingered at a party, this was “dick out, skirt up, I can impregnate you” sex. So you know, one of the fun kinds.

This is not an isolated incident, it’s even recommended by the Daily Illini! One of my buddies/coworkers, perhaps you remember him as Sexy Sal, is also a big fan of playing outside. Apparently the benches surrounding the quad offer strong support for both vaginal and anal sex. Every time we walk past his bench, he turns to me and says, “I had sex right there. Just so you know.”

Thanks, Sal. Thank you.

I was under the impression that we have safety patrols that walk around at night. Do they not exist during the summer or do they just bring popcorn for the show? Don’t get me wrong though, I’m not a stranger to public indecency either. When I lived in Germany I was at a club with my boyfriend and instead of waiting to get home we just left the club and went to this giant pipeline behind the parking lot to exchange head. It was February and it was freezing out, so this little adventure didn’t last too long, but the point remains that there are a helluva lot of us who are incredibly impatient and/or kinky.

When I saw the dude boning his girl at the eternal flame, I immediately alerted as many people as possible, but none of them were authority figures. I just thought it was hilarious and that everyone should be jealous of my discovery. So here’s my question to you:

Are you the type of person who finds this sort of act repulsive/inappropriate or are you the type of person who wishes you were getting in on the action? Somewhere in between maybe?

I have a few buddies overseas right now. Due to Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, they’re not allowed to be doing what they’re doing. I’m sure a good number of you have heard of Lt. Dan Choi, the Arabic-Speaking linguist and combat veteran of the Iraq War who was forced to leave the military because he’s gay. Even at U of I you can be kicked out of the ROTC program for being gay (though we can still take your classes, so suck it!).

The following is a letter from one of my friends who is currently stationed in South Korea. He wrote the first half a few years ago and shared it with me and I asked him if he wouldn’t mind me sharing it on With Tongue. He not only agreed, but he wrote an update on his current whereabouts. For obvious reasons I am keeping his identity a secret.

Without any further ado, here are words from an Unknown Soldier:

28NOV07

My car is running in the driveway with the driver side door open, my mother stands at the end of the sidewalk crying, our pointless argument continues like brothers placing blame on each other after being caught playing with matches. “You didn’t take out the trash that day” she yells at me, “Mom” I said; “I haven’t lived here for a year, what are you talking about?” As our argument continued, it becomes more apparent to me that she is beating around the bush, she wants to ask me something and I already know what it is. As if too ashamed to look me in the eye I made it easier for her. “I know what’s bothering you” as I interrupted her tangent; “Yes mom, I am sure whatever it is you heard is true, I’m gay.” With a blank stare she looks up at me and says: “I kind of always known for a while, your step dad will not take it that well.” After that night we didn’t speak again for 2 years.

A year prior to our argument I joined the US Army as a reservist and moved out of my parent’s house, I was only 17. Living in a small Mormon town where everyone knew everyone, it was hard for me to explore let alone talk about. I was a gay atheist in the military; my family owned a few small businesses in the town and it was safe to say that I felt like a fly zipping around the town waiting to get smashed once someone noticed. I was still in high school, after attending my basic training I was living on my own, paying my own bills, finishing my Senior year of High school and had a roommate – which by the way, was in the Army National Guard, attend school at the near by college and was the typical straight guy everyone hated. Being now 18 years old – I had yet been able to express myself or even explore to find out why I felt the way that I did.

Not soon after I was able to explore my sexuality, finally knew what it felt like to be me and not have to hide myself. My first kiss underneath the stars in the middle of a football field, my body tingled as if being uploaded with everything that I needed to know; it was amazing and yet so bitter sweet knowing that I may never be able to experience this without having to kiss with my eyes always open constantly looking over my shoulder making sure nobody sees us. This was the moment that I knew who I was, and knew how I couldn’t be, my choice to live in the dark and live 2 separate lives was decided in that split second underneath the stars on that football field.

A few years later I had grown comfortable with my new unit, they became my family and mentored me into the NCO and man I am now. In 2003 we found ourselves being mobilized for the first time; this I knew was going to be an experience that would change my life forever. We trained for this very moment every drill knowing that we would be knocking at the door of war and there we were turning the door knob. I was deployed for a year and a half and during that time my family became closer to me, I found myself being more open about my sexuality than I ever thought I would be. I hung out in the female tent which displayed a Pride Flag that several of the females had hung over their tent. The longer I spent there the more I realized I was not alone. One of the nights I was walking and talking with one of the lesbian females in my unit. “I don’t know what it is, I love to be with women but there is also that urge to be with a man” she said, I replied: “Me too.” I outted myself and didn’t know it, it was the moment – I felt so involved and belonged that it just came out. She looked at me and gave me a huge hug and said welcome to the family.

From that point most of my unit knew or at least had inkling about my sexuality and to my surprise; I was never treated differently, I never stood on a pedestal and announced to the world about who I was for that would be against UCMJ it was just more of an unspoken truce. If some of the other guys started asking questions about me then the girls would tell them that there is no possible way that I was gay, their conversation about the explanation I will leave to your imagination. I was thankful that there were people even looking out for me, I now had people to talk to and I made true friends for the first time that wasn’t built on a lie. Only 2 times did 2 guys ever come up to me and ask if I were gay, surprisingly I told them the truth. Now, don’t get me wrong I trusted these guys with my life and vice versa. Still no reaction and they would even joke around about it.

My job at the time was in demand and there were only 6 units in the military that did what we did, we mobilized M1 tanks, and removed any damaged or blown up tanks from the battle field back to the rear. I don’t hold myself to any higher standards than anyone else. I have seen other soldiers die fighting for what they believe in, I have seen civilians shot, I have seen terrorist blow themselves up, I have killed, and I had experienced all this before my 21st birthday. I am a soldier and being a soldier was the only thing that mattered.

My promotions were rapid, I went through the ranks of E1 to E4 Specialist in less than 2 years of joining, I decided before taking the next big step to becoming a Sergeant that I wanted yet more experience. When I returned back to the states, there was a large gathering of family and supporters waiting to greet their loved ones, as I navigated my way through the ever-growing crowd I couldn’t help but wonder what it would be like to have somebody waiting for me as well. I flew back home and got a job working as a computer consultant for a major internet provider and also volunteering my time to my home unit to help backfill any positions they needed, I also got a place of my own but this time I was alone. I came out to the rest of my family and only my family, I told them that I am independent now, I have my life and I am who I am and if they would like to keep me in their lives then they would have to except me for who I was and if they didn’t then they don’t have to. That ultimatum sparked some fear, anger, and understanding that ultimately was accepted by everyone; a small victory.

My time as a civilian passed very quickly between working and traveling for my unit, I eventually re-classed to a new military job, something with a higher mobilization call up than my old transportation unit. My new unit is something that is still in high demand and being rapidly deployed all over the world especially here in Iraq. During my training to become a new member of my unit I happen to run into a First Sergeant of another company that was (at that time) deploying in a few months. After graduation I volunteered to help man his new unit, I had all my belongings put into storage and I moved across country to assist in the creation of the unmanned unit. Within the month the First Sergeant and I had created a working fully manned unit in which I attached myself to and deployed with again in 2006. I was promoted to Sergeant one week prior to our ship date.

To my surprise our arrival in Iraq was not was I expected at all, we were going to head up a newly formed support team to help rebuild the infrastructure within the government of Iraq, a daunting task that has not been easy throughout the years. Our base of operations: The United States Embassy within the Green Zone now known as the International Zone. Our duties, our jobs, our purpose, and all our training was to do another job working with the locals in rebuilding and sustaining neighborhoods were put in the back seat. Our new job was much bigger and “it had never been done before” is what we were told, “if Baghdad fails to rebuild then so will the rest of the country”.

Being located in the International Zone, associated with the US Embassy, and also the organization our unit had formed, we became the front man in assisting the Government of Iraq in rebuilding which in turn made us a high target for Iraq’s militia. Within the first 3 months our Battalion lost 7 soldiers, our compound in the International Zone (IZ) has been targeted countless times by mortar teams as well as rocket teams. Some say it is safer to be out on convoys most of the day due to the mortars impacting inside the IZ, it happened so frequently it seemed to be a way to tell time. Like most soldiers, I have faced my fair share of close calls, stray round bursting through my roof while I am relaxing on my bed, a mortar impacting 7 yards from where I sleep, and being caught outside with mortars and rockets landing within feet of where I was taking cover. Some soldiers are not as lucky as I have been, I have been in Iraq for 2 consecutive years totaling three an a half years, and never had a scratch inflicted. Other soldiers spend less than a week and are sent home with honors and a flag draping their coffins.

I am now a Staff Sergeant, I work in an operations cell as a key member of our organization, and I have escorted over 20 Generals, met 5 US Senators, and escorted numerous official Iraqi Government officials. Serving in Iraq at the US Embassy doing my part for my country not because I feel I have something to prove but because I believe in something that is greater than me. I have a skill and an opportunity to help my fellow Americans, and to help my soldiers. My job and my positions in this organization has been demanding, when I return home I only hope my replacements will have the attention to detail and devotion as I have had because one wrong decision can cost the lives of so many soldiers.
I am in the United States Army; I am a Soldier before anything else. This is my life; this is the path I have chosen. One day I will be a Soldier and a Person without having to worry about stereotypes and discrimination. And one day, my partner will be allowed to wait in the crowd of people waiting to hold me in his loving arms.

Unknown Soldier

19JUL2009 - Update

I have returned from Iraq and couldn’t cope with the civilian life, I started a regular civilian job and just found it lacking the excitement, the unknown the everlasting sense of worthiness. I found a boyfriend and it was perfect besides the fact that I couldn’t concentrate on what was supposed to be important in my life, instead I found myself thinking about the soldiers that I had left behind, the job that I had left. Confused and not sure what I should do it wasn’t long before I found myself leaving my old job in the civilian world, my reserve job in the military which was Civil affairs to go full time active duty and leave everything that was becoming important in my life yet a 4th time. My life that I should have been able to enjoy was over-ran by the military. I thought army, lived army, and wanted army, anything else was just not up to par. My relationship failed and I lost a lot of friends as well as a lot of support from my family.

I am now stationed in South Korea and found a new job that is more stimulating working in the Signal Corps as a Team Chief (same as a team leader or squad leader) for a new highly developed backup system that is still in the theoretical stage of development. I find this job up to my skill level and constantly keeps me challenged in a way that no other position has been able to do. At the cost of so much, and the threat of sacrificing what I have always wanted which was to live a normal gay life and not be judged or threat of prosecution and being thrown in jail for being gay in the military. My boyfriend which I loved didn’t understand why I had to leave but understood that I made my decision which almost cost me his friendship in the end to better my life and to become the other person I had always wanted to be A Soldier.

I want you to know that no matter what, I am going to be who I am going to be, somebody has to do it. Any gay military member may not be able to say this out loud to everyone but we do feel the emotions both bad and good on both sides of the argument of gays in the military, especially those who are dedicated to military life like myself , that we love reading the support pages as well as the constant news of a promise that had yet to be made true or false by letting gays serve openly in the military. But one thing is constant , your support and I love and am inspired everyday by reading articles and comments about everyday gay life and culture that I am missing out on and can not participate in. For it is you and your accepting friends and family that give me the strength to move forward and live everyday with the passion to push forward and help as much (although it is very little) as I can to press on. So thank you for your support, although most military men and women in the GLBT world may not be able to express at this time due to restrictions on current policies, we hear you and are by your side everyday at every moment…. Thank you for your help and service fighting this other war.

UNK Soldier.