Last, but certainly not least, is Ari, a guy I met my freshman year. When I met him he was drinking out of a glass in the shape of a boot. Ari graduated with a political science degree in 2007 and currently attends a highly ranked law school. He was out of the closet while at UIUC, but that wasn’t always the case. When he rushed and pledged he was in the closet, but after initiation he came out to two of his friends who were in his pledge class, but no one else.

“That was the start I guess. After that, the same year, some other good, but not as close friends found out. And I eventually told my “big bro.” At that point, I was still pretty insistent that everyone that knew kept quiet. A couple other people found out by comments made by people that knew who didn’t think before making them, but overall it was pretty contained. Then, in my junior year, I was away for a semester. Apparently, while I was away, someone started talking and apparently the news spread throughout the house. I found out through my good friends that it was essentially common knowledge at that point. So after that, it didn’t really matter anymore, since it was such common knowledge that eventually even pledges would find out sooner or later. I just stopped worrying because there was nothing I could do about it. That’s how it all unfolded.”

After coming out (or being outed), no one really talked to Ari about it unless they were trying to show him their support. According to Ari, “It was pretty much business as usual.”

When asked whether or not it’s safe to be out while pledging, Ari said, “Personally, I like people to get a solid impression of me without being shaded or tinted by my sexuality. Like it or not, there are a lot of immediate assumptions that people sometimes make when they meet someone knowing that they are gay. Sometimes they aren’t even conscious assumptions; they can be socially ingrained things that don’t even come to mind. So, I really prefer people to get to know me, and become friends with me, on my own merits - not to mention the fact that it really isn’t the business of people who aren’t my friends. I don’t go around introducing myself to people and throwing in other pieces of extremely person information either. Then, when they know me well, chances are they see me no differently when they find out that I’m gay. And that’s how it should be - not a big deal. That being said, my house has, since the time that I came out/was outted, has had a couple of more members come out of the closet, and has rushed around 3 or maybe 4 openly gay guys.”

Okay. Fuck this. I have a shit ton of homework to do before Spring Break is over, this, too, will be Q&A format.

W.T.: Why did you join a frat in the first place?

Ari: I didn’t set out to join a frat, I actually was planning on not joining a frat - partially because I didn’t think it was for me, and partially because my parents had threatened to kill me if I joined one. However, my cousin was friends with a couple guys in the house, and she took me to one of their parties which I didn’t know at that time was a rush party. I was also good friends with a number of people on my floor at the dorms, and going to rush parties was thing to do on the weekends for the first month of school. So I went to the parties, and drank the houses’ beer, and had myself a good time. After one of my classes, the guy sitting next to me leaned over and started talking to me. Apparently, he was the rush chair of the house that I ended up joining.

W.T.: And then passionately made love to you?

Ari: He invited me to come over to the house, play basketball, hang out with the guys. So I thought sure, what the hell. That friday night, I went to one of their parties, and mind you, in my head I wasn’t “rushing,” I was just there to go to parties and have a good time. And the rush chair pulls me aside into a room and gives me the bid speech. I was floored, because I never saw it coming. They all cheered me on while I signed the bid card, and I proceeded to get even more plastered.

W.T.: Were you able to have any relationships?

Ari: Well, I was in a long-distance relationship at the beginning of my freshman year, which ended my second semester of freshman year but it was long-distance, so a little less difficult to hide. I was in a relationship my sophmore year as well.

W.T.: And you hid it?

Ari: Yes, and actually that ended up being the catalyst for me telling a few more friends. When it was ending, I was bummed and having a little bit of a rough time but I really didn’t have anyone immediately surrounding me to talk to. Eventually one of my best friends noticed that things were a bit off, and asked me what was going on and that’s when I told him. I needed to talk to someone about it. Mind you, I probably spent at least 2-3 hours 5-6x a week hanging out in this guy’s room. We were very close friends which made it simultaneously easier and harder. Easier in that I was confident that we were good enough friends that he wouldn’t really care, and that I thought I knew his personal leanings enough to know that he would take it well. Harder in two ways: 1) The risk was greater. While I knew it was unlikely, I could have lost one of my best friends had I been wrong. 2) I almost felt a little bad that I had hidden this from such a good friend for a significant period of time.

W.T.: You frat boys are always so damn adorable. Now, did you ever just fool around with guys while in the closet? Or flirt? Such as hit on a guy at a party? Or end up messing around with someone?

Ari: I had a strict no developing any attraction to guys in the house rule. I did fool around with guys while I was closeted, yes. And let me modify that firt statement as well. It wasn’t that I had to hold myself back from being attracted to guys in the house - I just wasn’t. It would have been too weird - these were my friends, my frat brothers…I just didn’t think about that like them. It’s interesting, because people always ask when they find out I was in a frat if I fooled around with other guys in the house and I always thought that was a bit preposterous.

W.T.: You said you did hook up with guys? How would you go about that?

Ari: Usually, the interwebs. Craigslist only really came into its own by around senior year. gay.com was also a popular method amongst the closeted and also, the infamous manhunt. I’d go to their place. Once or twice I had guys come to the house, but only when I was sure it was late enough that nobody was up and my roommate had to be out of town or at his girlfriend’s place.

W.T.: Do you think it’s physically safe to be out in a frat?

Ari: Again, I think that depends on the house. I never feared for my physical safety, but then again, I probably could have beaten the crap out of half my house. But in my house at least, there was never any thought that even crossed my mind regarding a physical confrontation. I’ve seen a couple gay guys dancing at frat parties. I think making out might be a little more iffy, not in that someone would physically harm anyone but more that some people just wouldn’t like the in your face-ness of it.

W.T.: Is homosexuality ever discussed seriously in the frat? Not necessarily as a huge group but among maybe 2 or 3 guys?

Ari: Yea I’ve heard conversations about it before I came out. I remember a couple isntances of people discussing it. It usually was to the tune of it might be a little weird at first, but in the end who really cares. Once I heard someone say it would be very strange and uncomfortable because of the communal shower arrangement and the other couple people present proceeded to tell him how stupid that was.

W.T.: Would you say those conversations made you more comfortable with eventually coming out? Less comfortable? Not even significant?

Ari: More comfortable eventually. You still could never be sure how people would ultimately react, but they went a ways in making me feel like it wouldn’t be a huge deal. Mostly I just thought “man, if they only knew…I would love to see their reactions if I dropped the bomb on them right now.”

W.T.: Have you heard of Greek Allies?

Ari: Yea, actually one of my friends’ sisters started it and they came to our house. It was viewed as kind of a waste of time and annoying, but not for the reason you might think. At that point we already had 3-4 openly gay members in the house, so the guys didn’t really feel like we needed a lesson in being accepting or supportive. It was kind of “old hat” to us. We had all gone through having someone in the house that we knew come out, whether to us specifically, or to the house as a whole. We didn’t really need to be trained on how to respond if it happened again. I suppose that’s a pretty encouraging reason for viewing the program as a pain in the ass, huh?

W.T.: If you were to give advice to guys in the closet who are in frats, what would it be?

Ari: First off, if you want to hook up with dudes, just do it. But when you’re doing so, you really don’t need to be the most paranoid person in the world - trust me, the last thing that’s on the other guy’s mind is outing you to the rest of campus - people just don’t do that. It’s not like you’re going to walk down the street and the guy is going to walk up and make out with you, or point you out and yell “that guy loves the cock” at the top of his lungs. So chill out and have fun.

Also, it’s understandable if you don’t want to be out to the house. But I guarantee, you can find one or two of your really good friends who probably lean toward the left and would not have any problems with it. Confide in them, so long as you’re sure you can trust them. It really helps to have someone you can talk to about things. And eventually, if you decide that you want to come out to the whole house, it helps to have even 2 people, or even better a group, of guys who have your back and can shut up the few morons who might decide they have a problem with it.

W.T.: Is there anything you think is important and should be in the article? What do you want U of I to know about frats in relation to sexuality, misconceptions you want to correct or anything like that?

Ari: Every house has at least one homo. If you think your house is any different, you are wrong. That person may be your best friend, and guess what, he’s probably never made a pass at you. Having a gay frat brother is no different than having a gay friend who lives 2 miles away - just because you live together in close quarters doesn’t mean that he’s going to want to jump your bones. Take a second and think about it: is it really that big a deal that you would consider throwing away a close friend, or stopping yourself from becoming the friend of someone who could have a major impact on your life? They’re the same as you, and they will never hook up with your girlfriend behind your back. So consider yourself lucky.

-fin-

That’s all she wrote, boys. I hope you’ve been able to get something out of these interviews. I had a lot of fun interviewing these guys so even if you didn’t learn anything, just take pleasure in the fact that they made ME happy.

Now, on to our next round of business. The idea for my next set of interviews was given to me by my buddy Ryan Barrett. What I want to do is interview people who are both in the LGBT community and the disabled community. I don’t know if the term “disabled” is offensive or not, but I’m assuming it’s not since it’s the term they use here. If you are interested or know of anyone who might be interested, please contact me at withtongue@gmail.com. I may not be able to hash these out til after the summer but I would really like to start learning as soon as possible.

Thanks for your help, yo!

Go Sox!

Our next guest is Peter, a former U of I student who graduated with a degree in English. Like our friend Parker, Peter was fairly talkative so we’ll go with a Q&A format again. And as a quick note, the guys got to choose their own aliases, so the whole Peter Parker thing was definitely not my own doing, but god damn do I find it hilarious.

W.T. Can you tell me about your experience when you rushed?

Peter: Coming from out of state I knew nobody, my roommate and I both rushed freshman year. I was looking for a home away from home and was in leadership positions in HS and wanted to do something similar. I wasn’t out when I rushed.
I’m fairly butch so it’s not immediately obvious that I’m gay. I have to make mention of it. Both of the houses I was given bids by had gays in their ranks but I chose the house I thought I would thrive in.

W.T.: When you rushed you weren’t out. Is there a reason for that?

Peter: I wasn’t out to my roommate. He was quite closed-minded.

W.T.: So it was more of keeping your dorm situation in check rather than hiding it from the frat.

Peter: Correct. In November I came out to my pledge brothers.

W.T.: How’d that work out?

Peter: Fine, never any criticism to my face or behind my back that I know of. I would say that I’m a natural leader and charismatic so that helped my situation.

W.T.: So after just 2 or 3 months you were already out?

Peter: Yea, and when drunk, I told a female friend of one of the actives so they all knew I was gay before I initiated.

W.T.: Would you say there are certain frats where it isn’t safe to be out?

Peter: Yes, definitely. Well as a guest I don’t think a gay guy has anything to worry about at any frat on campus. I definitely think in some frats it’d be very difficult to be out. I’ve had acquaintances who are in other frats who told me it simply wasn’t a possibility

W.T.: So you know some other gay guys who were in the closet, then?

Peter: Yes, Craigslist is wonderful.

W.T.: Can you tell me about any hookups you’ve had with in the closet frat guys? How they went down, etc.

Peter: Well one time on Craigslist I ended up finding a guy who lived in the frat across the street from mine. He wasn’t out at all. We arranged that he would come over once everybody in my house was in their room so I could sneak him up the side stairs.

W.T.: Why couldn’t you guys just lie and say something like, “We’re gonna go get high?”

Peter: Most closet frat boys are really paranoid. Since I was out he didn’t want them to automatically know that I was taking him upstairs to fuck him. I didn’t make all my sexual activities known, but my closest brothers and I had a contest my last year living in the house seeing who could get the most. I really didn’t have to hide anything and there were frat boys and GDIs who liked to be paraded past people hanging out while taking them upstairs.

W.T.: GDIs?

Peter: God damn independents.

W.T.: After these hookups you just went back to normal life? Or did any of them ever turn into friendships or anything?

Peter: Some of them did. I have a strong personality, so either there’s chemistry beyond the fuck or there isn’t.

W.T.: So why were you out?

Peter: Well I realized at the start of puberty I was gay. I was in the closet all through high school and I was too nervous to “hook up.” No guys I was interested in in my high school so when I decided to go to school out of state I felt that I should take the opportunity to be me. Since I had no ties from high school to hold me or to worry about. I’m not one of those “bi” or “curious” guys. I’ve never have been with a woman past making out.

W.T.: So you define yourself as gay? Or do you not believe in labels either? That tends to be a common theme with you guys.

Peter: Yes. Gay. And yea I know, its because they’re afraid of everything that “gay” means. But I like to buck the trend. Lots of straight guys have said “Wow, you’re definitely not what I think of, when I hear ‘gay.’” There is one of those “don’t believe in labels” guys who is active in my frat now and he is a total mess.

W.T.: Would you say there were differences between in the closet frat guys vs. out frat guys?

Peter: No there definitely is a difference. He clung to me from the start. He would get drunk and cry to me, tell me he wishes he could be like me. There are lots of self image issues and trying to be hetero-normative. When he saw that to any outsider I was “straight” but able to be confident in my identity and not ashamed to bring my bf to a party I think he realized that hiding it and putting on a straight facade was not going to be fun.

W.T.: Do you think that if more gay guys were out in frats, that anyone would benefit?

Peter: Well I think if the guys don’t fit homosexual stereotypes and they are out there is a benefit to all. I don’t think frats need to go out and recruit flamboyant gays though. I guess you also have to consider that there are guys who have sex with guys, but aren’t and will never identify as gay or even be in a relationship with a guy.

W.T.: What advice would you give to the guys who are in the closet in frats?

Peter: Don’t put on anymore of a show if necessary and don’t participate in homo bashing. Eventually the way you talk about others will start to affect how you feel about yourself.

W.T.: Who would you recommend frat life for?

Peter: I think that the U of I provides a fraternity that can positively affect anybody’s time on campus and it’s up to the guy to know what is good for him. And to also know which fraternities would be bad for mental well being. There’s something for everybody; I mean to say. Also, instead of looking for a fraternity that can become your identity you should find one that compliments your identity. The transition after college for the super-closeted can be very difficult and nobody wants to end up married to a woman fucking men in the bathhouse.

W.T.: Would you say that frats get a bad rep when it comes to things like sexuality?

Peter: To some extent, though some of it is deserved. I think if anything, my promiscuity was judged more by gays. There were guys in my house genuinely jealous of the ease with which I was able to arrange what I wanted. The competition of who would get more action was won by me. One of my closest brothers once even asked me to find a guy to come over and blow us both, since he couldn’t get a girl over. He was of course absolutely shit-faced drunk.

W.T.: Did you do it?

Peter: Yes. Hot experience. We never talked about it after. It’s not like I sucked his dick, though I would have. Because he is my brother, I arranged what he asked for and didn’t hold it over his head after or tell anybody else.

W.T.: That’s almost adorable.

And that, gentlemen, concluded the conversation. There’s only one more after this one, so hopefully you’ve been able to take something away from these.

Of course, not all gay guys in frats are out of the closet. Next came Joe, a sophomore in psychology who has been in his frat since last year. Joe is bisexual and is in the closet, saying that he does not feel the need to let everyone know about his sexuality because he does not flaunt his attraction to either of the sexes, but he is willing to tell someone if they were to ask.

“I feel that I may be losing opportunities. However, I also feel that I will not be judged, discriminated, or made fun of if I stay closeted. It’s not like I can go up to any guy in most bars even if I’m openly gay.”

One of the standard questions I asked the guys was if they thought it would be safe to be out of the closet in a frat. Joe told me, “I think I would be safe to be out in my frat but I’m only assuming. I do not fully know my brothers that well.”

Unlike some of the other closeted guys I interviewed, Joe has had actual relationships with other guys. He told me that it’s easier to keep these things under wraps since he’s not living in the house this year.

I asked Joe his sentiments for programs such as Greek Allies, an organization that self-identifies as “an initiative on campus focusing on developing more cohesive relationships within chapters of fraternity and sorority organizations” with the aim of “eliminating the pressures and constraints placed upon gay, lesbian, and bisexuals who are also members of the Greek community.” You can find more information about them here. I assumed the answer would be something along the lines of “it’s more of a punishment and everyone hates these things” or “yeah they’re helpful,” the reality of the situation was that Joe hadn’t even heard of them. His actual response: “The opportunity has not been given.”

Not very talkative on the subject, Joe only had two more things to say. The first being that in terms of whether or not gays are accepted on campus, “They are accepted but they are not respected.”

And should gay guys bother rushing a frat?

“I would not recommend very fem gays to rush. They will be made fun of. They will be considered as outcasts.”

**

The next on the list is Cole, a senior in business who has been a member of his frat for all 4 years at U of I. He rushed his frat for the social aspects, and while he says being gay in a frat puts you in no physical danger, it does put your social life in danger.

Cole is bisexual, and when asked why he decided to stay closeted he told me that he wants to get married to a girl one day. It seems a common fear (reality?) among bisexuals that once you’re out of the closet, no girl is going to want to date or marry you. A short note on this subject, I was at work and asking my coworkers, all of which are straight, whether or not they would date someone if they knew this person had sex with the same sex. The guys were very open to this, saying that not only would they be fine with dating a woman who has had sex with other women, but several of them would be okay with letting their girlfriend or wife continue having sex with women even while they are together. When it came to the women, though, they were very adamant about not wanting to date a guy who has ever taken it up the ass. Unfortunately I did not get to ask any gay guys or women about their feelings for dating bisexuals, so please, comment and tell me how you feel!

Moving on. I asked Cole what common features would be for a hookup between him and another guy. He, like many of the other guys I interviewed, told me that his hookups have always been discrete, took place with masculine guys, and more often than not involved alcohol to the point of drunkenness. He has hooked up with 10 guys in his time at U of I, usually using Craigslist to meet them. To keep everything discreet he creates fake email accounts and never tell his hookup his real name.

When he finishes school, Cole tells me that he has no intention of ever being in a relationship with another guy. One of the benefits of being in the closet, he says, is that you can continue dating girls and get to explore with guys, “It is not a bad thing to be in the closet in a frat.”

When it comes to the general sentiment the frats have towards homosexuality, Cole told me that he never has heard conversations in his frat where homosexuality is put in a positive light. He feels that gays are generally accepted on campus, but if more guys in frats were out they would probably be a bit more accepted.

In the end, he still recommends that gay guys be willing to rush the frats, “it’s still a great way to be social.”

And then there was Parker. Parker is a junior advertising major who rushed his frat his freshman year. At the time of the interview he wasn’t really out to anyone, but did define himself as gay. Being that talkative guy that Parker is, I’m just going to run this one in a Q&A format.

WT: Can you tell me about your experience with rushing?

Parker: I wasn’t out. I just knew I wanted to do it. It’s a built-in social network. The house I chose to rush had at least one gay and that made me a bit more comfortable. I was more worried about getting – I’m not good about talking about this stuff.

WT: So if you don’t mind me asking, why aren’t you out?

Parker: Everyone just wants to fit in and not be different. The guys probably wouldn’t be different to my face but … I have to teach freshmen these brotherly values and now it’s kind of sad that I can’t do what I preach. Coming out wouldn’t hinder my relationships but I just don’t want to deal with it right now. I don’t want people talking. I hope that changes soon. Hopefully I can come out to my parents first, and then that’s how I want the coming out cycle to start.

WT: Since you aren’t out, can you tell me how you go about meeting guys?

Parker: Initially being drunk makes it easier. There’s hiding … being secretive like about where I’m going. I’m not proud of it, but I’ve come to terms with it. Sort of. I do have friends who know and a friend even came out to me. I don’t want people to feel uncomfortable if I talk about me and a guy. I do have outlets if I need to talk about it. Having a friend is a must. Absolutely. But I’m still coming to terms with it.

WT: So would you say it’s bad to be gay in a frat?

Parker: I know someone who is gay and refuses to tell anyone in his house. I know people in his house who know. I don’t think it’s bad. Everyone supports each other. We do everything together. It shouldn’t be a big deal. Ideally it shouldn’t be a big deal, but realistically it is.

WT: What would you say frats think about gays?

Parker: They frown upon it. Come on, the stereotype is that you get drunk and have sex with girls. But my frat is more atypical. It’s not a good representation of a stereotypical frat. If I were in a different house I think I would hate it. I have more of a problem with it myself than anyone in my frat would.

I would love to bring a date to a function, but if I did … hopefully one day I won’t care. I just like to please people though. It’s hard to be different. I feel different every time a group of guys talk about sex. I can’t contribute. I think they’d be dumb if they didn’t know. It’s more of a personal issue. Being in a frat or not, I’d be at the same place I am now. I would like to think my frat would be there to support me. I would be surprised if I got a negative reaction and I think my friends would support me. My fam too. I don’t want to upset anyone though. I also don’t want to be thought of as that fag. It’s a hard issue to come to terms with.

WT: So do you think you’re missing out on anything?

Parker: I’d like to be able to go to C St. for a reason other than an exchange and I want to be able to tell people, “Yeah, I was at C St. tonight.” It sucks not even being able to hook up. College is an experience you only get once and I’m sure I’m going to regret not doing it sooner. You can really get away with so much shit in college and I’m not using them! The one guy I hooked up with … well I had a bad experience with him. Maybe that has something to do with it.

WT: Can you tell me about any relationships you’ve had?

Parker: I haven’t had sex but I have done handjobs and oral. I haven’t had a relationship. I went to dinner and hooked up after but that’s not a relationship. No one has been interested enough in me to have a relationship. This is mostly my fault. In relationships you meet their friends and their family … I can’t do that right now. How would other people react? I don’t want to be in a relationship where I’m hiding. I have had a girlfriend but I didn’t really care. I want to do it right.

WT: The LGBT Office at the Union tends to be a very accepting environment. Have you ever checked it out?

Parker: Yeah I went to the LGBT Office and was really turned off. People said, “Oh, must be a freshman!”

WT: So, turning more towards the subject of U of I, do you think people accept gays on campus?

Parker: Maybe half and half. I remember one time in class when a girl said in front of the class that she is against gays and abortion. She sounded dumb. But people tend to be more homophobic when they come from smaller towns, at least in my experience.

WT: Frats tend to get a bad wrap with being called racist or drunks, etc. One of my aims with this article is to not only prove that gays exist in frats, but that frat guys aren’t total assholes. How do you feel about these stereotypes?

Parker: Not every frat guy is just looking to have sex. I know a good number of guys who have relationships and have sustained them. There are guys who get drunk every week and sleep with girls, but that’s not everyone. Frats do provide good services. They do charity and help the community. It’s not all just about getting drunk.

Being in a frat has helped me get through stuff. There is a sense of brotherhood. It shouldn’t just be limited to straight guys. I’m really involved in my house and I care a lot about it.

WT: Is there anything you think campus should know?

Parker: Being gay isn’t wrong. It’s not a choice. No one would choose a path with so many obstacles. I don’t understand how someone can discriminate against what turns a person on. I’d bet a good amount of money that almost every frat has at least one gay guy in it, especially after talking to the people I have.

Dan is a bit different from our last fratty specimen, Ron. Dan rushed his sophomore year and he did so being out of the closet.

“Yeah, no one really cared that I was gay.”

Dan was able to find a frat, however, that already had two gay (and out) members. Dan told me that, “It is definitely safe to be out in a frat, but if you’re not honest with who you are, you won’t find the right frat for you.”

I had mentioned to Dan how the previous guy I interviewed, Ron, had hidden more of his hookups. Since Dan is out, I was interested in his experiences with hooking up. He told me that he never felt the need to hide his sex life and that it has never been a big deal to bring a guy home.

When it comes to social circles on this campus, it seems that a lot of gay guys stick together. Many gay guys I know are friends strictly with other gay guys, and since Ron broke that stereotype I was wondering if Dan would be doing the same. He told me that a lot of his friends are bros in the Greek system, both gay and straight, as well as friends outside the Greek system, both gay and straight.

“My friends have to be well-rounded. I’m not going to be friends with someone just because they have the same sexual orientation that I do.”

When it comes to going out, Dan has been to C St. a couple of times but he doesn’t make it a habit because it’s simply too far away. C St. is the only gay bar in town (okay, FuBar and Boltini are pretty faggy too, and I hear there’s a new Dyke bar in town too…), but not even C St. is willing to call itself as a “strictly gay” bar. This, I find, is a good thing, but there’s no way in hell you’re going to convince U of I students that C St. isn’t a gay bar. Point of the story is, there are only so many places that welcome gays as their main customers, and I wanted to ask Dan whether or not that was a problem.

“Well, you can go to C.O.s and make out with a dude, but you will get dirty looks. The same goes for heterosexuals at C St. Really, PDAs in general are going to get you stared at. The most unsafe places for LGBT students are probably dark parking lots at night and some frats, but definitely not all of them. Campus is pretty much safe for everyone, especially in comparison to Chicago.”

This got us on the topic of frats themselves. Dan told me that since he’s made his presence known in his frat, the guys have toned down their use of terms like “faggot” and “that’s so gay,” but he feels that even when they do use these terms they’re usually not meant in a negative way.

“Yeah, other bros call people out now too. Bros look out for each other.”

Apparently the guys actually can get interested in the subject of homosexuality, and, after they’ve had a bit of liquid courage, they manage to ask Dan questions varying from “So, do you have a boyfriend?” to “Dude, who gives better head, guys or chicks?”

At this point Dan interjected, wanting to make sure I was aware, that, “I could tell you a name of a gay guy in every frat on this campus. There are guys that get drunk and do stuff who can’t possibly really have a problem with homosexuality.”

These guys don’t really interest Dan though, “I wouldn’t want to mess around with someone closeted ‘cause that’s just added drama and bullshit. Less effort needs to go into it if they’re out.”

His advice for guys who are in the closet and in a frat?

“Start by telling your two closest buddies, whether they’re in the house or not. You’d be surprised that it doesn’t actually spread. People didn’t tell other people. Just start with a few people to see how they react. Not everyone will be cool with it, but that’s not the end of the world. I’ve been lucky in finding people who don’t really care.”

And when it comes to benefits of being out of the closet:

“Bros are supposed to be your closest friends. You are holding back by not being yourself. If you don’t want to come out, you won’t be able to have a relationship necessarily. I would never say that you have to come out. If you’re not sure, WAIT.”

On whether gay guys should rush at all:

“I would encourage gay guys to rush, totally, but there are certain frats you should really stay away from. Not all frats are stereotypical 100% of the time. There are aspects asides from getting laid and drunk all the time. But frats aren’t for everyone. Guys who shouldn’t pledge are guys who are reserved. The whole point is to be social and make new friends. Be willing to put yourself out there. If you have trouble opening up to people, a frat isn’t the place to start.”

And when it comes to ending some stereotypes about frats:

“Gays in frats are a lot more prevalent than you think. And it’s not like I’m the “gay” bro. It’s not my defining characteristic. It comes off as downplayed, but it isn’t just ignored. I would also give frat guys a lot more credit for being understanding than you’d think. Just cause they make jokes about it doesn’t mean they don’t care. It’s actually more of a human response if you think about it. I’m in a minority, but it’s cool.”

****

On another note, I’m going to do some shameless promotion of the LGBT Office. Here is a message that I stole from Lyndon Stewart from the LGBT Resource Center:

Heya folks,

The LGBT Resource Center still needs a group of undergrad and grad students who either frequent or do not frequent our office. We’re doing a focus group designed to structure our long term goals so we need your input on what you want from us or wish you could see in the future.

The focus group will be THURSDAY, APRIL 2nd, at 5PM, in the LGBT Resource Center (323 Illini Union). We’ll have free food for you and it should be an informative and insightful meeting.

We really need people to participate so if you’re interested please send me a message!

cstewar2@illinois.edu

Thank you!
Lyndon

When it comes to taking on projects, I tend to focus on what is either going to give me a good grade or on what is pazing the bills. The217 does neither of these, but I really do enjoy blogging. The only issue is that it’s a lot easier to write sporadic thoughts than it is to write the things I have done heavier research on. What I’m getting at is, I’m finally taking the time to write about those fucking frat boys.

Many moons ago I conducted interviews with several frat bros here at U of I. Some of them currently go to school here and some are alumni. Today, my friends, is the day where you can start hearing their stories. Names of both people and of frats will remain anonymous.

Without any further adieu:

Gay Frat Boys and the Tongue that Loves Them: Ron

Our story starts with Ron, a cute guy who I met up with at Legends over a beer. Well, I was only 20 at the time, so I just had a Pepsi (gross I know) but the sentiment was there.

Ron is currently a grad student here at U of I and completed his undergrad here, too. During his undergrad he was a member of, as he put it, “one of the top 6 frats here on campus.” Against labels, he could see himself being with a guy or a girl. Though he considers himself out of the closet, he is not out to his family or some of his best friends, saying that such an announcement would be inappropriate.

We talked quite a bit about his experience as an undergrad. Ron was no stranger to cliché hookups. Ron got trashed at a barn dance and went back to the frat house with a buddy. Ron passed out in his bed and woke up to his friend feeling him up. Ron decided to just roll with it and started to experience what he referred to as closet “bedding.” He never had a relationship with anyone during his undergrad, but he did have 2 regulars who were good for 2 AM drunk dials. Once he got caught hooking up with a guy in an academic building, which just made the experience hotter. But, being gay in a frat isn’t all about fucking (who would have thought?).

When asked why he didn’t come out during his undergrad, he replied that a lot of it dealt with indifference mixed with insecurity. Not only that, but his major left him constantly busy and there wasn’t really time to worry about whether or not he should be out. A final factor was that coming out as bisexual (or whatever you wish to call it) could potentially limit the amount of action he would get from girls. Guys tend to love the idea of dating a girl who has gotten with another chick, but unfortunately the sentiment isn’t often returned when it comes to guys messing around with other guys. He had been in relationships with women before and he did not want them to think that their relationships were lies. He was very adamant about expressing how much he did care about these girls and that by no means were they just a tool for hiding his sexuality.

When it comes to pledging a frat, Ron insisted that you be in the closet while doing so, otherwise you’ll be bonged. Bonging, for those of you not up on your frat boy lexicon, means that you’ll be kicked out of the pledge race. Ron says that pledging was both the best and worst part of his life, “an emotional rollercoaster where I would at one point be dying laughing and the next minute I’m fearing for my life.” Hazing is simply ritualistic with fraternities, much like in sports or the military.

When asked what happens if you come out after getting into a frat, Ron said, “After being initiated, a frat cannot really deactivate you, but you’re an idiot if you think nothing changes. Your frat may vary. Some guys are accepted whole-heartedly and others are simply alienated. Naiveté says it is physically safe to be out. In my experience there weren’t any physical bad happenings. Alienation was the most common form of homophobia.”

I asked Ron about other forms of homophobia within a frat, and he said that words like “faggot” or terms like “that’s so gay” are extremely prevalent. Once he witnessed guys throwing bricks at a frat house and shouting “faggots!” but these guys weren’t even in a frat themselves.

When it comes to dancing with guys, Ron says that you can definitely do that anywhere, including at a frat party, but you better be able to deal with the judgment. “There was never a single instance where I felt defenseless.”

One thing I have personally witnessed when it comes to dating guys who are heavy into sports or are in frats is that they act differently with their straight friends than they do with their gay friends, so I asked Ron if he noticed any of these characteristics in himself.

“I don’t necessarily act differently with gay guys and girls than straight guys, but I’m guilty of sometimes playing it up with gay guys, usually just for the sake of the joke. I need to be able to keep up with gay guys.”

He still hangs out with the same friends now as he did before he was out, but admittedly has been to C St. a bit more often.

“I’m too into this campus to be limited to one niche. I was an RA, a TA, in a frat, in a choir, the president of an RSO. I can be friends with just about anyone and am able to always find something in common. It’s called having people skills.”

One thing Ron wanted me to make sure I got across was that homosexuality is not a taboo topic and that frat guys are indeed able to hold discussions about things other than just Keystone. Homosexuality as a topic is not taboo, and politics are talked about to death. Being in a frat is about building brother-like friendships, and whether or not you will be accepted depends on your own level of confidence and your ability to form friendships, “If you feel you’re surrounded by people who aren’t going to accept you, pledge a different frat.”

When it comes to being gay in a frat, “I’m for it. Be an example that it’s possible. But you really have to have the people skills.”

One of the last things we talked about over our beer and Pepsi (fucking disgusting, I know) was what advice he would offer to a gay guy who is in the closet and in a frat.

“Come out whenever you want to. Don’t feel pressured to come out. If your friends do care in a negative way, they were never your friends in the first place. Friendships are not and should not be conditional to you. Coming out doesn’t have to be a big announcement. You can come out with your own subtleties. Also, ask yourself if being yourself is more or less important than what people think of you. You’ll live a miserable life if you care about the latter. But, it really was exciting and hot being in the closet for a while. It’s so hot that no one else could know it was going on.”

Now, it’s important to note that Ron is one of many different gay guys out there on campus. These are only the opinions and experiences of one guy. I’ll be posting more interviews over the next few days (don’t worry, they’re already written and you won’t have to wait 6 months to read them) and each guy is different from the last. Though Ron was ultimately able to be himself, it’s not the case with every guy in a frat who messes around with other guys.

More to come in the next few days.

It wasn’t until my sophomore year at UIUC that I stepped into a frat house for the first time. I’d met this bro online using Craigslist, a website where you can not only buy and sell your couch, but also a place where one night stands are given away like candy. The bro snuck me into his frat house and we had to be really quiet when we got down to business. Do you remember that shark with the mouthful of rotating sharp teeth from James & the Giant Peach? That’s what it feels like if you’re hooking up with a bro who doesn’t have a lot of experience, and this proved to be no exception.
I came out of the closet at the end of the 8th grade, so this sneaking around crap was really strange to me. While I couldn’t understand why someone would need to hide their sexuality, it was also a huge turn on. Here I was in a frat house hooking up with some bro and could get caught/lynched at any moment. This experience was what prompted me to write this article exploring the lives of both in the closet and out of the closet queers within the frat system here at UIUC.
Two weeks ago I posted several ads on Craigslist, because if you’re on a mission to find queer frat guys, Craigslist is the place to find them. Within an hour I had my first response and now at the end of my research I’ve spoken with eight different guys, all with different backgrounds. Some of them are out of the closet, some of them are not, some of them have graduated and some of them are still living in their frat house. They identify as gay, bisexual, and two choose not to label themselves at all. Some of their names are aliases, some are their real names. The following is a brief summary (do take note on the word brief) of their feelings about being queer and in the Greek system, and its purpose is to show any other queer guys in frats that they are not alone. It by no means represents all homosexuals (bisexuals, etc.) or the entire Greek system, but a random sampling of a few guys who took the time to answer an ad.

* * *

Being in a frat on the U of I campus is linked to certain stereotypes, and most often these include mass amounts of alcohol, lots of promiscuous sex, and as of a few years ago, the ability to throw a now infamous party that involves both tacos AND tequila. Greeks on campus are often thought of as tools that are close-minded and bigoted, but after interviewing eight queer frat guys over the past two weeks, it is clear that these stereotypes are based more out of ignorance than actual fact. Also clear is that gays exist all over this campus, and they do not adhere to the stereotypes they are dealt.

Out of the Closet

Being gay, Greek, and out has a lot more prominence on this campus than one might readily expect. In two weeks I was able to find four out queer guys: Logan, Dan, Ari, and Peter. Peter, who graduated last year, told me stories that involved competitions among his frat brothers over who could get the most action in the shortest period of time, and not feeling he had to hide anything, he won the competition. Logan considers himself to be from one of the “top 6” frats on campus, but wasn’t out during his undergrad. Now as a grad student, he has come out to his frat brothers who now give him dating advice. Ari, now in law school, came out to a few select friends because he felt if he went through this alone, he wouldn’t survive it. After spending a semester away, people talked and he came back to nearly everyone knowing that he is gay, but no one really cared one way or the other about it, and “…it didn’t really matter anymore; it was such common knowledge eventually even pledges would find out.”
Before they came out, their sex lives were not only private, but hidden. Nearly every guy I interviewed had to sneak a guy into the frat house in order to hook up with them. Many of these stories also involved using websites like Craigslist in order to find other queers and more often than not they had to be assisted with liquid courage. Dan, however, is a bit different. A senior in sociology, he was out of the closet even when he rushed the frat. Dan does not feel the need to hide his sex life and claims, “It’s not a big deal to bring guys home.”
Differing from many gay and bisexual guys on campus, the Out Greeks never got sucked into the gay scene of CU. They all have main circles of friends/brothers that have more in common than just sexual orientation. When it comes to being gay on campus, the consensus seems to be that most places are safe for gays, up to and including most of the frat houses (though you shouldn’t be surprised if you are stared at heavily).

In the Closet

Being in the closet is a very different case. Three of the four guys who are not out refused to meet in person and gave all interviews through E-Mail. Joe, a sophomore in psychology, writes, “I think I would be safe to be out in my frat but I’m only assuming. I do not fully know my brothers that well.” Three of the four also claimed to never have had a relationship, though hookups seem to be aplenty. Cole, a senior in business, has hooked up with 10 guys and has done so using sites like Craigslist, remaining anonymous with fake email addresses and fake names.
When asked why they choose to remain closeted, they feel they do not want to be thought of simply as “the gay one,” because there is more to each one of them aside from their sexual orientation. Cole, bisexual, also says that if he were out girls would no longer want to hook up with him, and with a desire to have a family one day, coming out as bisexual would not be a good idea.

The In-Between

One of my most intense conversations was with Parker, a junior in advertising. By the end of our 2 hour phone conversation (when I should have been studying for midterms), Parker told me he didn’t really have a chance to talk about everything like we had before and that he has started to reconsider his choice of staying in the closet.
“I have to teach freshmen these brotherly values and now … well, it’s kind of sad that I can’t practice what I preach.”
Out to very few of his friends, Parker says that having someone to confide in is an absolute must. With hopes of one day bringing a guy as a date to a frat function, Parker asked the question, “Why do I care?” several times throughout the interview, “Seriously, you can get away with so much shit in college and I’m wasting my days. I’m sure I’ll regret not having come out sooner. I’ve never had a relationship. Or even a date that wasn’t actually just a hookup.”

Still To Come

With so many interviews and so little page space, this is only the tip of the iceberg. For more details on the guys’ interviews, check bac here on the blog over the next few days. I’ll devote a blog to each person and discuss topics such as the hypocrisy of a brotherhood and the hiding of secrets, whether or not groups such as Greek Allies actually help acceptance on campus, and of course a few more intimate details when it comes to those hidden aspects of the life of being closeted and Greek. Queers exist in all forms on this campus, whether they’re dancers in the art department or Cubs fans and in a fraternity, they exist and have histories that run way deeper than how their sexual orientation may stereotypically define them. Read the blog, learn their stories, and realize that your brother may have something that he wants to tell you. He is, after all, your brother. (Though, in all honesty, if he is a Cubs fan, you might want to consider setting a few boundaries. That’s just not natural and frankly I find it appalling.)