Sorry I had to tease you like that. We talked about so many things and I think quite a bit of it was worth bringing to the217. And now, the very final installment of Catholic School Boys.
W.T. So you do believe that sex out of wedlock or out of a committed relationship is not favorable?
Matt: Yeah, that’s what I personally believe. It works for me, but if someone else if having sex I’m not gonna freak out about it. I wouldn’t push it on anyone.
W.T. In school, did the topic of homosexuality ever come up with your friends?
Matt: Yeah, it was generally looked down upon. Fag was used sometimes and the word gay was used every other word. It was generally not a good thing. It was talked about and near the end of high school I had the discussion with some of my friends. One of my good female friends talked about how gays were cool, and then someone said something about me being gay, and at one point she said, “No, I know him, he couldn’t be gay.” She was still in the mindset where it’s not right to do religiously, but it’s cool and it’s okay. I don’t know how that works.
W.T. It seems like you’d feel guilt.
Matt: Yeah, it was definitely my second life.
W.T. So you started messing around 8th grade?
Matt: Or seventh grade. Maybe sixth grade. Somewhere in junior high. Messed around.
W.T. What were you thinking while you were doing that stuff?
Matt: Well I was enjoying it! Afterwards there was some guilt with it but it was definitely “this is fun, I want to do it again” sort of thing. For the other guy it was very much experimentation but for me it was definitely “I like guys.” There was a period in high school where I thought I would get over it. That it was a phase. I look back now on high school and I would never want to go back. I was so two-faced then, and that’s still there today if I would go back and visit friends. If I go hang out with them I revert to my old self, and I don’t like that version of myself.
W.T. Why do you think it’s necessary to keep on with that other face?
Matt: Partially for my parents. My sister doesn’t know. She should have figured it out by now. But my mom still works for the school. Her job wouldn’t be in jeopardy but there are people who would treat her differently. My friends would probably be like “whatever” but I only see them once or twice a year so I don’t care enough to really tell them. They’ll probably know at some point. I really don’t care who I tell but my mom has this super paranoid (NOTE: I’m not sure what Matt said here. A paranoid something. This interview took place at Murphy’s around 4 in the afternoon and some drunk guy screamed out in frustration while playing a video game. It was amazing.) … and it makes sense. My mom is completely cool with gays, but she thinks it’s wrong religiously so she thinks it’s wrong for me to do it. It’d be cool if you were to come over, if that makes sense.
W.T. Right, like if I came over and we played PlayStation or something.
Matt: Right. That’s okay!
W.T. What does she think the punishment for being gay is?
Matt: Being gay and practicing it, you’re going to Hell.
W.T. Your mom thinks you’re going to Hell.
Matt: No, at the same time she believes you can sin your whole life and repent and still go to Heaven. Theoretically I could go have a boyfriend for the next 40 or 50 years and then at the end I can repent and still go to Heaven.
W.T. Does she think you’d be willing to do that? Say at the end of your life that you would say, “Sorry, didn’t mean it.”
Matt: Haha, I don’t think I would do that, but she … what she really wants is for me to date a girl. Be normal.
W.T. How’s your relationship with God now?
Matt: Well like I said it’s sort of spiritual and religious but I don’t go to church.
W.T. What does being spiritual mean exactly?
Matt: I’ll just give you an example. In high school I told you we had to take religion classes. I got interested in the theology behind religion. I’ve been reading different theology books, some with clashing viewpoints on homosexuality. Lately I’ve been reading those and trying to figure out what I think.
W.T. Can you tell me about anything about the relationships you’ve been in. with the straight guys?
Matt: They aren’t real relationships. They’ve never been defined as “we’re dating.” We’ll mess around. I can pretty much say I’ve never had a boyfriend. We’ll mess around or constantly hang out and do everything together … and mess around. It’s like dating without the title. And that was the deal with the administrator’s son. They had a huge family and they all left for a while, for the summer. It was the two oldest brothers that stayed back. I was really good friends with the younger one and it was the older one where every day after work I would go over to their house. And we’d hang out and he usually ended up mostly naked. And then we’d end up wrestling.
W.T. How does one just end up naked?
Matt: He’s hot? Haha, he’s “I’m just so hot and need to take my shirt off. And I need to take my pants off too.”
W.T. So they were really in need of air conditioning or fans or something.
Matt: Right, that’s how one ends up naked. And that guy … we never did anything super sexual. We never went all the way. And then I’ve done things with guys … where we’ve done everything but sex. Like, everything that didn’t need a condom was done. That’s the other fun part. My parents think I’ve never done anything with a guy.
W.T. With your friends who do know, how does it affect your relationships with them?
Matt: It hasn’t really. They’re totally the same relationships. One of them I told because we were in a hotel in downtown Chicago and he was like, “Do you have any porn to watch?” And I was like, “I have porn but not stuff you want to watch.” And he’s like, “No you don’t! Show me!” He was completely cool with it.
W.T. So school, was it a good experience overall?
Matt: Yeah. I wouldn’t want to do it again.
W.T. If anything were to change at that school, what would you want it to be?
Matt: If they actually talked about it. If they addressed it in some way, shape, or form. And in the addressing of it if they even say, “We don’t like it but we like you and you’re here.” It needs to be the person’s choice, and not the school carting these kids off to Exodus camps.
W.T. You say choice, do you think it’s a choice to be gay?
Matt: Damn. You caught me using the wrong word. I don’t really think it’s a choice, but I’m not completely convinced either way. For me, I am completely mostly I would say 100% visually and sexually attracted to men. But I dated my girlfriend and was emotionally totally attached to her and physically things worked together. And that presents a problem to me defining it as not being a choice. And that’s why I don’t define myself.
W.T. Last question, what would you say to a student who is in a Catholic school right now, and he isn’t sure if he’s gay or not, but he’s questioning.
Matt: I would tell him to talk to someone about it. I think that the fact that I never told anyone or talked about it … it hindered me. And I probably wouldn’t talk to a teacher about it. It’s hard to find someone in a religious high school to talk to. Who do you talk to? If they’re in Champaign there’s a new RSO starting for gay Christians. It’s starting as a hangout group and an open discussion kind of group.
W.T. If he corners you and he says, “Tell me what you think about homosexuality,” what would you say to him?
Matt: I’m cool with it. I think that’s because of my own life and struggles back and forth deciding what I think about it. Even if I choose to go back and date my girlfriend, somehow we got married or something, but I would still be cool with my kids being gay. I think that’s the interesting thing about people who go to a Christian school and grow up in the church but want to be gay. Want to do both. I think the church needs to erase hate and not shun people away.
**
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Liam Reed: 1987 model, runs fairly well, few dents, starts in cold weather, no baggage, loves flea markets and canned soup. Send all hate mail, love mail, and sexual advances to withtongue@gmail.com
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Liam Reed
1987 model, runs fairly well, few dents, starts in cold weather, no baggage, loves flea markets and canned soup. Send all hate mail, love mail, and sexual advances to withtongue@gmail.com