When it comes to taking on projects, I tend to focus on what is either going to give me a good grade or on what is pazing the bills. The217 does neither of these, but I really do enjoy blogging. The only issue is that it’s a lot easier to write sporadic thoughts than it is to write the things I have done heavier research on. What I’m getting at is, I’m finally taking the time to write about those fucking frat boys.
Many moons ago I conducted interviews with several frat bros here at U of I. Some of them currently go to school here and some are alumni. Today, my friends, is the day where you can start hearing their stories. Names of both people and of frats will remain anonymous.
Without any further adieu:
Gay Frat Boys and the Tongue that Loves Them: Ron
Our story starts with Ron, a cute guy who I met up with at Legends over a beer. Well, I was only 20 at the time, so I just had a Pepsi (gross I know) but the sentiment was there.
Ron is currently a grad student here at U of I and completed his undergrad here, too. During his undergrad he was a member of, as he put it, “one of the top 6 frats here on campus.” Against labels, he could see himself being with a guy or a girl. Though he considers himself out of the closet, he is not out to his family or some of his best friends, saying that such an announcement would be inappropriate.
We talked quite a bit about his experience as an undergrad. Ron was no stranger to cliché hookups. Ron got trashed at a barn dance and went back to the frat house with a buddy. Ron passed out in his bed and woke up to his friend feeling him up. Ron decided to just roll with it and started to experience what he referred to as closet “bedding.” He never had a relationship with anyone during his undergrad, but he did have 2 regulars who were good for 2 AM drunk dials. Once he got caught hooking up with a guy in an academic building, which just made the experience hotter. But, being gay in a frat isn’t all about fucking (who would have thought?).
When asked why he didn’t come out during his undergrad, he replied that a lot of it dealt with indifference mixed with insecurity. Not only that, but his major left him constantly busy and there wasn’t really time to worry about whether or not he should be out. A final factor was that coming out as bisexual (or whatever you wish to call it) could potentially limit the amount of action he would get from girls. Guys tend to love the idea of dating a girl who has gotten with another chick, but unfortunately the sentiment isn’t often returned when it comes to guys messing around with other guys. He had been in relationships with women before and he did not want them to think that their relationships were lies. He was very adamant about expressing how much he did care about these girls and that by no means were they just a tool for hiding his sexuality.
When it comes to pledging a frat, Ron insisted that you be in the closet while doing so, otherwise you’ll be bonged. Bonging, for those of you not up on your frat boy lexicon, means that you’ll be kicked out of the pledge race. Ron says that pledging was both the best and worst part of his life, “an emotional rollercoaster where I would at one point be dying laughing and the next minute I’m fearing for my life.” Hazing is simply ritualistic with fraternities, much like in sports or the military.
When asked what happens if you come out after getting into a frat, Ron said, “After being initiated, a frat cannot really deactivate you, but you’re an idiot if you think nothing changes. Your frat may vary. Some guys are accepted whole-heartedly and others are simply alienated. Naiveté says it is physically safe to be out. In my experience there weren’t any physical bad happenings. Alienation was the most common form of homophobia.”
I asked Ron about other forms of homophobia within a frat, and he said that words like “faggot” or terms like “that’s so gay” are extremely prevalent. Once he witnessed guys throwing bricks at a frat house and shouting “faggots!” but these guys weren’t even in a frat themselves.
When it comes to dancing with guys, Ron says that you can definitely do that anywhere, including at a frat party, but you better be able to deal with the judgment. “There was never a single instance where I felt defenseless.”
One thing I have personally witnessed when it comes to dating guys who are heavy into sports or are in frats is that they act differently with their straight friends than they do with their gay friends, so I asked Ron if he noticed any of these characteristics in himself.
“I don’t necessarily act differently with gay guys and girls than straight guys, but I’m guilty of sometimes playing it up with gay guys, usually just for the sake of the joke. I need to be able to keep up with gay guys.”
He still hangs out with the same friends now as he did before he was out, but admittedly has been to C St. a bit more often.
“I’m too into this campus to be limited to one niche. I was an RA, a TA, in a frat, in a choir, the president of an RSO. I can be friends with just about anyone and am able to always find something in common. It’s called having people skills.”
One thing Ron wanted me to make sure I got across was that homosexuality is not a taboo topic and that frat guys are indeed able to hold discussions about things other than just Keystone. Homosexuality as a topic is not taboo, and politics are talked about to death. Being in a frat is about building brother-like friendships, and whether or not you will be accepted depends on your own level of confidence and your ability to form friendships, “If you feel you’re surrounded by people who aren’t going to accept you, pledge a different frat.”
When it comes to being gay in a frat, “I’m for it. Be an example that it’s possible. But you really have to have the people skills.”
One of the last things we talked about over our beer and Pepsi (fucking disgusting, I know) was what advice he would offer to a gay guy who is in the closet and in a frat.
“Come out whenever you want to. Don’t feel pressured to come out. If your friends do care in a negative way, they were never your friends in the first place. Friendships are not and should not be conditional to you. Coming out doesn’t have to be a big announcement. You can come out with your own subtleties. Also, ask yourself if being yourself is more or less important than what people think of you. You’ll live a miserable life if you care about the latter. But, it really was exciting and hot being in the closet for a while. It’s so hot that no one else could know it was going on.”
Now, it’s important to note that Ron is one of many different gay guys out there on campus. These are only the opinions and experiences of one guy. I’ll be posting more interviews over the next few days (don’t worry, they’re already written and you won’t have to wait 6 months to read them) and each guy is different from the last. Though Ron was ultimately able to be himself, it’s not the case with every guy in a frat who messes around with other guys.
More to come in the next few days.
Liam Reed: 1987 model, runs fairly well, few dents, starts in cold weather, no baggage, loves flea markets and canned soup. Send all hate mail, love mail, and sexual advances to withtongue@gmail.com
Comments
Suleman Hussain (Suleman Hussain) says:
(Posted March 30th, 2009 at 9:03 am)
Agreed, I remember you mentioning this a while back.
On the actual article, It would appear (to me at least) that Ron’s situation was not particularly different for being in a frat. Which in and of itself is perhaps the interesting part. Perhaps I expected more of an out there reaction from the world of UofI greek life. I say that, cause I have plenty of frat boy friends at bradley. and apart from the sometimes funny sometimes annoying “you’re like my first ever gay friend” comment, no one ever cared And I really doubt it would have made a difference being in one of the fraternities here. But the greek life here is somewhat more toned down than UofI’s.
Kevin (Kevin) says:
(Posted March 30th, 2009 at 12:43 pm)
Cool stuff.
Did he actually know of anyone who was “bonged” for being gay, or was it just pretty obvious that was the consequence of coming out during Rush? How often were people “bonged” for perceived sexuality?
It’s cool to get a wide perspective - I was actually a guy’s date for a few of his Frat events and everyone was cordial. They even let me get into a party or two for free when the “other girls” didn’t have to pay 
And when it came to things like “crossing streams,” I was generally the uncomfortable one…
Manuel Makowski (Manuel Makowski) says:
(Posted March 30th, 2009 at 1:05 pm)
Hello Mr. Reed, in regards to your blog, I agree with “Ron” and his view points of being in a Frat and being in the “closet”, and how he express the idea that all should simply come out and be open, yes I would agree with this that this would be the perfect world, however; the reality it that it is not that easy….. As a “Frat-boy” myself if u will, I have experienced the reality that coming out, will not put you in physical danger, yet will cause others to withdraw, and yes going back to what “Ron” mentioned about these individuals not being your true friend may be true!, but we must realize that for some people if the word gets out to particular people such as family members whom have no idea that “we” are bi, gay whatever the case may be, we face the hardships of being isolated from a family which is all we have ever known…………You have pointed out that this is only the view point of one person and I would love to see what others have to say…. until the next time our paths cross ducezzzzzz…
Liamz (Liamz) says:
(Posted March 30th, 2009 at 5:35 pm)
Kevin,
I think he may have mentioned noticing someone being bonged, but I can’t say that with 100% certainty. As for how often that has happened I can’t really say, but maybe if Ron reads this he’ll be willing to let you know.
Ee … so were you labeled as a girl or a date? I’m not sure how I’d feel about that. But I do love how girls love taking advantage of “girl prices” when it comes to entrance fees or cups. I want equal treatment, my ass.
Manuel,
The rest of the guys have different opinions when it comes to the subjects we discussed and you’ll definitely notice that when I post them over the next few days. Interestingly enough, more of the in the closet guys were concerned about how their social circles would perceive them rather than what it would do to a relationship with their family.
Hope you enjoy the rest of the interviews!
Z (Z) says:
(Posted March 30th, 2009 at 6:29 pm)
Liam, I think Kevin was more referring to the fact that typically, other dates were girls, and so when the other dates–who all happened to be girls–didn’t have to pay, neither did he. In other words, the house recognized him as a date/S.O. and he got the same treatment as any female date would have gotten.
If I’m not mistaken, it was probably my house.
Ron (Ron) says:
(Posted March 30th, 2009 at 6:30 pm)
How your social circle perceives your being gay totally depends on how close you are with your social circle and how your social circle perceives gay stereotypes. Frat boys generally are homophobic because they make fun of walking stereotypes and they think all gay people are going to hit on them. But if you’re: a) close with your frat, b) don’t embody any of the negative gay stereotypes, and c) don’t wear your “gayness” on your sleeve; then they will most likely accept you, eventually. Acceptance, or even tolerance, doesn’t happen over night. If you’re the same “brah” to your friends who now just happens to like boys, then I don’t see them having issues. And if you think your fellow bros aren’t able to look past it, then I question why you’d let yourself become closely associated to them in the first place.
Different gay people perceive tolerance/acceptance differently, so I can’t speak for everyone. But I think it’s easier to find acceptance if you assimilate easily into typical heterosexual culture. And if you were “bro” enough to pass pledgeship, then I think you’re “bro” enough to find tolerance within your frat.
On the other hand, frats are scared to be labeled as “the gay frat” if one of its own members is gay. That may take a part in the alienation associated after coming out to your frat. But again, I’m a firm believer that your true friends will shine and not care and even defend you; and all the others who chose to judge you and alienate you were just posers in the first place.
One of the most homophobic guys in my frat said this to me in response to my coming out, “Duuude. That must’ve been the bravest thing a person can ever do and I totally respect that.”
Ron (Ron) says:
(Posted March 30th, 2009 at 6:35 pm)
Oh, and a frat will never say, “You’re bonged ’cause you’re gay.” They’d definitely have a possible lawsuit on their hands and get in trouble with their Nationals.
If you’re gay -AND- they don’t like how you’d represent the house; they’d basically treat you like absolute shit to a point where you’d want to drop out of pledgeship yourself. Bonging is usually reserved for assholes who are gonna complain about cleaning the house at 4AM cause they “don’t need to pay for friends.” Pfft. If you suspect that they bonged you cause you’re gay; you might be right, but you might also have a crappy personality that they wouldn’t be willing to look past it.
Z (Z) says:
(Posted March 30th, 2009 at 6:41 pm)
I totally agree with everything Ron said, especially with the part about houses not wanting to be known as the “gay” frat. Hopefully, with the recent developments of more frat guys coming out and houses realizing that it’s not a phenomenon limited to one or two houses, that will change.
I had a similar experience as Ron with one of the guys in my house who I had perceived to be the most likely to reject me when people ended up finding out about me–let’s call him Joe. Joe was a pretty good friend, and yet I was still worried about it because of the things I’d heard him say. My closest bro, who I’ll call Steve, who I spent hours with agonizing over what to do, eventually took over for me. When Steve and Joe were hanging out with me scheduled to arrive later in the evening, Steve initiated a conversation about gay guys, and the possibility of someone in the house being gay, which lead to the typical conversation. Then he told the Joe that one of his own good friends in the house was gay. Being as how everyone knew how close I was with Steve, Joe figured out that he was talking about me. When I walked in after my exam about an hour later, Joe stood up and gave me a bear hug, saying that he never would have said half the things he said if he knew one of his own good friends was gay. I haven’t heard so much as a gay joke (which I tend to make all the time) out of his mouth since. He became one of my staunchest defenders and supporters, especially when I was outted to the rest of my house unknowingly. It probably didn’t hurt that I never fit any gay stereotypes whatsoever, but in the end, it didn’t matter.
Ron (Ron) says:
(Posted March 30th, 2009 at 6:45 pm)
I also am not judging those who are conflicted with coming out to their frats. I came out to my frat as a 5th-year grad student, so my coming out experience is not that same as that of someone who may have come out during his undergrad. Looking back, I certainly wish I had the courage to come out during my undergrad, but I didn’t and therefore my earlier comments should be taken as words of encouragement to DO IT.
Z (Z) says:
(Posted March 30th, 2009 at 6:54 pm)
Again, I agree with Ron. I came out to my frat as an undergrad, and while the process was slow, and sometimes very nerve-wracking and even painful, it ended up being one of the most positive experiences of my life, and I wouldn’t change anything (well, maybe a couple things).
If you’re looking for the courage, just realize that to people who are really your friends, you’ll be the same. You won’t start acting differently just because you came out (it might even be helpful to explain that to them). If you hadn’t hit on them before, you’re not going to start now. Find at least one guy you’re close with, and do it.
Ryan K. (Ryan K.) says:
(Posted March 30th, 2009 at 7:26 pm)
I am absolutely positive I will enjoy the rest of your series as I have this one. Great insight and information. I also love the fact that your article is relative to many people, I find that in the now it is becoming easier and easier to be who you really are without hiding.
I secretly love interviews like this one, candid and honest not to mention your perspective of how you wrote it. Too bad that I am not interview worthy but if your ever interested in the military side let me know.
I can not wait to read more Liam. Great job!
Selim the Grim (Charlie) (Selim the Grim (Charlie)) says:
(Posted March 31st, 2009 at 1:53 pm)
I really enjoy these, Liam. I think they’re fascinating not only in the greek context, but in that they seem to vary greatly from person to person, frat to frat. I think a lot of greeks would really reconsider some of their actions after reading some of these. It’s precisely the sort of humanizing effect that tends to change people’s minds.
What I am curious about though: how can you be out and not have told your family or best friends? Anyone? Bueller?
Ron (Ron) says:
(Posted March 31st, 2009 at 3:05 pm)
I am out. I told my parents and best friends (I thought I mentioned that at our interview). It’s *everyone else* I don’t feel the need to make an announcement to. They can find out on their own.
Charlie (Charlie) says:
(Posted March 31st, 2009 at 10:08 pm)
Well, hello Ron. Thanks for clearing that up. Boo yah!
Liamz (Liamz) says:
(Posted March 31st, 2009 at 10:24 pm)
Yeah, I don’t know what happened. I either took the notes too quickly or put them in the wrong context. Sorry.
Phil (Phil) says:
(Posted April 1st, 2009 at 7:40 am)
Not everyone who embraces the gay community has no people skills, Ron… However, I do think that Ron brought up something interesting. I don’t make a big deal about it very often, but being bisexual is still very stigmatized and difficult. Coming out as a bisexual means being told “Bi now, Gay later,” by your gay friends, and means that your straight friends now look at you as for all intents and purposes gay. You don’t fit into either. Many bisexual men just stay closeted and mingle with their straight friends, and avoid exploring the gay community. Those that do decide to jump into the gay community, almost have to hide their sexuality to be taken seriously. Being in the closet even when you’re out of the closet, you know? Its certainly not as bad as the stigmatization that Transgender folks get, but its another frontier that someday we’ll have to start dealing with…
Good for you for coming out, Ron. You’ll find that once you’re out, you will become more and more comfortable with being gay, and will begin to see the wonderful traits of all of the gay people you meet. Making that leap with parents is really the no turning back point. Welcome to the family!
Add your comment
the217
Sections
Buzz Magazine
Liam Reed
1987 model, runs fairly well, few dents, starts in cold weather, no baggage, loves flea markets and canned soup. Send all hate mail, love mail, and sexual advances to withtongue@gmail.com
Jess (Jess) says:
(Posted March 30th, 2009 at 8:14 am)
I am so excited that you finally posted these!