Mary Z (Mary Z) says:
(Posted May 27th, 2008 at 11:40 am)

1) I love that you’ve incorporated discussion of Shortbus into your column. You should talk about movies and representation more in future posts, you write about them well.

2) Woah, I didn’t realize that most of the long-lasting gay couples I know have the same name! Is that a new rule?

3) I’d also like to hear you discuss polyamory more. It’s something my friends are getting a lot more politically vocal about, and personally, the only thing I think of when I think of polyamory is hicks and mormons. So the fact that I’m starting to see it incorporated into more liberal thinking surprises and intrigues me.

4) Justin Bond is delightful. I don’t believe you mentioned that in your discussion of shortbus.

Mike A (Mike A) says:
(Posted May 27th, 2008 at 11:59 am)

Interesting…. like you I hope one day to find something that lasts, but I’m not counting on it in the near future. It seems to me at our age, one of the few ways to meet other gay men is to be part of some kind of “scene” - whether it’s the dance scene or the campus “out” scene. And yet it’s this scene that promotes the promiscuousness of many a gay man. How do we change our ways - or do we even want to? Are some of us just playing around while we can and waiting for later in life to stick with someone? Or are we just expecting too much/set our standards too high for that partner to come around? I for one am just hoping that when the right person comes into my life I’m just hit over the head with it and know it. [and that hasn’t happened yet ]

James Foley (James Foley) says:
(Posted May 27th, 2008 at 1:00 pm)

I think it has to do in some ways with age, and perhaps American obsessiveness with quick gratification. Why develop a relationship with someone if you can use them for a night and then start again with the same sensation? So boring.

Gay love is just portrayed that way in some situations. Remember “American Beauty?” They had an ambiguous gay couple that lived next door that the ex-military neighbor thought was completely sick. But somehow they seemed to be the most functional of the relationships in that movie. Hmmm. But really, why do you have to work at something when you can just order it off Craigslist and it will be delivered to your domicile within less than 30 minutes? Why do you need hassle?

People who say gay relationships are so impossible and improbable should look at heterosexual relationships a bit more. About how improbably a certain group of New York City women always claimed relationships to be…until they grew up and out of their own scene too. Which reminds me, isn’t that movie coming out on Friday?

Kevin McLoughlin (Kevin McLoughlin) says:
(Posted May 27th, 2008 at 5:10 pm)

I’m always hesitant to place too much blame on things like ‘the media’ or ‘the scene.’ There are indeed gay bars that are not oriented around sweaty six packs and simulated anal sex. They’re called dyke bars.

In all seriousness… I do think it’s important to consider the context in which queerness has come to prevalence in American culture. Even though from my observation sex in the queer community is becoming - at least nominally - more taboo, it’s quite the exact opposite in mainstream culture. How many shows do you see showing functional, healthy heterosexual relationships? Promiscuity and sex are rampant in both heterosexual and queer media because drama and boobs sell.

It’s also really important to take a look at other lurking variables, particularly as they relate to heterosexual norms. NOTE: I am now going to be speaking in broad generalizations. There will always be some exceptions to what I am going to say - such is human nature. So please insert “usually” “often” and “most of the time” as they are needed.

Queer people often don’t experience dating throughout their formative middle school and high school years in the same way their hetero peers do. While heteros are experiencing superfluous and parentally supervised relationships, queer youth are usually stuck in a romantic tundra, minus the cute animals with color-changing pelts.

The same sex relationships we do experience are often unhealthy, amounting to “IMRU? Kool letz d8.” This was my experience - high school romantic life was a series of abusive and unfaithful relationships without many mitigating positive experiences, and this certainly put initial strain on my current relationship. Heterosexual youth often benefit from a diversity of relationships that queer youth don’t, and our limited experience has detrimental effects on pursuits later in life.

Beyond that, queer youth are 10 times more likely to attempt suicide than their peers. Depression and other difficulties are far more common in our community, with all the correlated behavior including paranoia, dependency, and promiscuity that are obviously detrimental to long term monogamy. Depression severely strains heterosexual relationships - there’s no reason why it won’t have the same effect on homosexual ones.

In addition to that, it is also important to look at stereotypes such as the ‘lesbians and their uhauls.’ Whether you believe there is a biological basis for the repression of feminine sexuality or not, I think there’s a pretty undeniable societal pressure for women to be the guardians of monogamy. We see this in things as basic as our language - men who sleep around are ‘pimps’ and women who do the same are ‘whores.’ The former is prideful, the latter is degrading. This stigma, like so many others, is carried over into our community, perhaps affecting somewhat the stereotype of the rabidly monogamous lesbian. Meanwhile, men carry with them societal (and, perhaps, biological) impetuses to accrue as populous a bevy as they’re able.

Now that I’ve gotten to use the word bevy (and forgotten what else I had to say), I think I can end this response…

Lyndiddy (Lyndiddy) says:
(Posted May 27th, 2008 at 6:08 pm)

I’ll be brief because most of what I wanted to say has been said.

First, I definitely agree with Kevin on the affect of the lack of defining dating experience for queer youths in middle school and high school (depending on when they came out) has on their ideas about monogamy and long lasting relationships. Another scenario I was curious about is the instances of homosexuals who started off dating or even having physical relationships with the oposite sex. Surely this would be the most heteronormative behavior they could engage in, short of marriage of course. Would this bring about greater value in monogamy or cause a backlash against such behavior? I guess that makes it sound like I’m saying the opposite of “heteronormativity” is promoscuity and that’s not what I think at all. I think you get my point though.

So, secondly, along that line I of course think about my own experience. I wasn’t out until my senior year of high school and I didn’t date anyone until almost exactly 4 years later. My goal even before I knew I was gay I always recall being to find one person to be with forever or at least long term which made my college experience difficult. I’ve personally never found anyone ready for that kind of a committment (until recently anyways).

My parents were already married by my age and i think that could partly be a result of differences in time, as in the times have changed and people just aren’t getting married as early and as often as they used to. I don’t have statistics but I generally feel like people save it until after college at least, these days. Anyways, I think that combined with the fact that except for a few exceptions, we (queers) just can’t get married so there’s no point in thinking about it (except when you’re actively trying to make that a possibility of course, if you’re in to that kinda thing). Still I find myself comparing myself to my parents periodically and I can’t help but feel I’ve fallen behind.

All that being said, clearly depending on how you’re brought up, what experiences you have, and just generally what you prefer people will want to sleep around, date, be fuck buddies with, or be with one person for part of or their entire life. What I hope is that these cultural limitations placed on queer kids by a society which still doesn’t fuly recognize them will stop being a negative influence (by that I mean all the confusion and depression Kevin mentioned).

I would definitely love to see some more guys out there who are ready to settle down.

RJ (RJ) says:
(Posted May 27th, 2008 at 7:58 pm)

A relationship by itself is one thing, straight or gay. It might be a best friend, a wife, a husband, a lab partner, boyfriend/girlfriend, a fuck buddy, or a fag hag. Everybody needs at least one, and there is always one that is TEH MOST IMPORTANT ONE!!!11 Naturally, there has to be a level of compatibility for these relationships to work in the first place - and appropriate for each category. Your lab partner could be fugly and back-haired, but you wouldn’t look for that in a sexual mate.

Once you find that right person, you’re generally set. Sometimes the right people find each other early on in college. I saw it when I was a freshman in Minnesota, I even see it here. These people usually do really well and strive on healthy relationships from their pasts. Believe it or not, they are not they only people that find long-lasting relationships! It’s all about looking for the right qualities in people. Gay or straight, compatibility is the key.

Mary brings up polyamory which is a great topic for homosexuals. As far as regular gay relationships go (in my mind, anyway), it may be ok for them to play the craigslist “flavor of the week” as said above. Once you’ve found that just-right person, you can indulge each other’s perfect sexual fantasies or whatever. There’s no rules in the real world; is a nun standing on your lawn watching you fuck? You can still satisfy regular sexual urges with your primary, swing with secondaries.

Jensen (Jensen) says:
(Posted May 27th, 2008 at 8:45 pm)

Forget a tongue-in-cheek and lofty response. Let’s just get real about it.

You’re right, long-lasting relationships aren’t indicative of quality. However, lasting until death actually does provide separation is a shining example of commitment. It’s certainly worthy of respect.

As for gay love.. When are you intimate but not passionate? When do you initiate therapeutic spending on counseling, dogs, clothes and vacations? When do you kill the relationship? How do you stay committed and make it work? It doesn’t seem people even make it long enough to properly analyze this, does it? What social constructs prevent the bulk of us from having lasting relationships? I don’t think it’s the media..

It seems most people don’t have the answers. There are too many options. Instant gratification? Absolutely. James’ first paragraph says a lot about the truth of the issue.

No, the scene isn’t conducive to a relationship. It’s a byproduct of gay life; it’s here to stay – entertain it, but know how to leave it alone and see it for what it really is. Live that life and you’ll pay for it with your solitary and fruitless years. Disagree? Put your chalk where your words are.

Real love isn’t just romantic. It’s gritty and dirty. Love starts out cute, sweet, wholesome and then those emotions turn into something else, something deeper. Try to stick with it; you don’t always graduate from one relationship to the next. Like your initial reaction to the seemingly nasty girl or guy that sits behind you in class, you’re pissed and immediately insatiable. You get used to it. You may even become best friends.

I respect a person who knows what they want. I’ve also known promiscuous people who admit the sex is only good 60% of the time. As for the remaining 40%, you awake only to wish you could disappear. The odds aren’t bad, but the lifestyle seems unfulfilling.

Relationships are a meandering path that seems daunting for everyone, I think. How could a million country songwriters be wrong? Heterosexuals have the same problems, minus this covert, zombie like, relationship destroying scene we speak of.

You’ll find someone. Maybe you’re not picking for fit, maybe even satisficing; looking for something adequate. Don’t short yourself. Obviously, there’s no perfect fit. You’ll need a balance and the creation of a team. Selflessness is the most perfect thing.

I like to think I know how to love someone. Like most, we fear being the elder gay in some random club in stonewash jeans walking around looking for love, even if it’s just for the night.

Ugh, moving on..

I know a threesome living together. They’re just fine; they seem to care for each other greatly. I have no issues with that choice. As for myself, I guess I’m just stingy. I don’t want to share my boyfriend, or supplement him. For the record, I don’t care how diplomatic you are, is there ever equal love in that situation?

So be proud to shout “one year no thirds!”

Mike Consalvo (Mike Consalvo) says:
(Posted May 27th, 2008 at 9:47 pm)

I saw an article online recently about a gay couple who had been together for 50 years! Honestly, I do think it is possible and I think for the most part, gays want that long term, be with you for the rest of our lives relationship.

Oh and the tv show Reaper had 2 gay guys in a long term relationship living together. Unfortunately they were 2 demons plotting to overthrow Satan and therefore Satan wound up killing one of them. The dead one is now in Heaven!

Mike B (Mike B) says:
(Posted May 28th, 2008 at 2:08 pm)

People have already said a lot of what I was thinking but I’ll add a distinctly different point: a rush to sexual intimacy hinders sustainable, mutual, emotional attraction.

Why is it that delaying physical intimacy with someone is considered antiquated?
Our closest, longest-held friendships are likely to be with people we’ve never fooled around with, and I would argue, that our friendships strengthen partially because the complexities of sex weren’t introduced. However, if you had sex with your best friend, would that change things for the worse? In most cases probably not, because you both are invested enough emotionally, and know each other well enough, that you can weather any storm. Given this, then an ideal relationship may be one founded on the strengths of a close, platonic friendship, that carefully develops into dating, and then physical intimacy.

Gays who ascribe to the ideals of sexual liberation (e.g. promiscuity but without the negative connotation) undermine what I consider to be essential to meaningful relationships. Do what makes you happy, but I for one disagree with the typical rush to physical intimacy and overall promiscuity of “normal” gay life.

Mike B (Mike B) says:
(Posted May 28th, 2008 at 2:15 pm)

errr correction, i meant “relationships” not “life” so it should read:

“Do what makes you happy, but I for one disagree with the typical rush to physical intimacy and overall promiscuity of “normal” gay relationships.”

Patrick H (Patrick H) says:
(Posted May 28th, 2008 at 9:39 pm)

You know, the fact that there are one in every 10 to 20 men who identify as gay or bi that could potentially have chemistry based on same-sex attraction is why it’s difficult for gay men to have relationships in the first place. I think in many ways when gay men enter a community of other gay men, there’s a contest of conquest or “battle of the testes” over who gets to him first, because they’re trying to fill some void (either emotional or physical). I think all human beings are wired by that because we’re all forced into this idea that monogamy is required for lifelong happiness. I think it’s great to have someone there to make you happy and with whom to celebrate your self-worth, but not at the cost of being a crutch. There’s no definite answer to the question of monogamy for gay men, or any person of any sexual orientation or gender. It’s really “to each, their own,” I guess.

Patrick H (Patrick H) says:
(Posted May 28th, 2008 at 9:40 pm)

You’re a very good blogger, btw. Major props!

Anonie M. Ous (Anonie M. Ous) says:
(Posted July 12th, 2008 at 8:12 am)

wow. I wish I had came across this topic. I think if two people are in a committed relationship with one another, then the focus should be on that commitment. I don’t really believe it matters if a couple is gay, bi or straight. If you want a monogamous relationship, then you will remain faithful to your partner. If you “claim” you want a monogamous relationship and cheat on your partner in secret, then something is definitely wrong either with the relationship, the partner that cheated, or the partner that decides to remain in a relationship with a person who intentionally decides to be unfaithful. Orientation has nothing to due with being committed and faithful to a person that you love.

GuemWrelm (GuemWrelm) says:
(Posted December 3rd, 2008 at 9:50 pm)

You got to check this video out I found on Youtube. Its badass.

Let me know what you guys think.

youtube video